What to say to get out of invites to IR35 unfriendly activities

[Contreras]

Of all the responses so far, I prefer WordIsBond's response. Doesn't seem much of a comeback to that.

I took WIBs original response to be sarcasm!

Seems I was wrong though. Actually I'm amazed at some of the responses here.

Wibbling about IR35, insurance, or getting overly contractual is a great way to cause alienation. Sure, the management may play along but you have to understand that this is just to keep you happy for the moment, exactly as they do when the permies wibble about the tea making facilities.

Try "I'd love to go, but I'd rather have type two diabetes".

That's more like it! Said with a wry grin of course.

[Dark Black]

One client I worked with had a weekly (on a Friday lunchtime FFS) "new tech get together" (I forget the nerdy term they actually used). I was informally invited but politely declined with a smile whilst wondering to myself why on earth they'd think I'd want to spend a lunchtime in a room with a bunch dweebs getting excited about the latest offerings from Microsoft (or whoever) .

When I was a permie, people went down the pub on a Friday

[Antman]

I took WIBs original response to be sarcasm!

Seems I was wrong though. Actually I'm amazed at some of the responses here.

Wibbling about IR35, insurance, or getting overly contractual is a great way to cause alienation. Sure, the management may play along but you have to understand that this is just to keep you happy for the moment, exactly as they do when the permies wibble about the tea making facilities.



That's more like it! Said with a wry grin of course.

Communicayshun on t'internets difficult like that. I like the bit about the dry gin though!

[jamesbrown]

Wibbling about IR35, insurance, or getting overly contractual is a great way to cause alienation.

Absolutely this. Your client couldn't care less about your tax position and to bring up anything related to this (or to discuss the details of your contract with someone outside of procurement) is unprofessional and lacking in credibility.

[unixman]

Absolutely this. Your client couldn't care less about your tax position and to bring up anything related to this (or to discuss the details of your contract with someone outside of procurement) is unprofessional and lacking in credibility.

I disagree that the client couldn't care less about your tax position, or status. It is precisely this status that allows the client to avoid NIC payments and a hundred other legally required expenses that they have with permies. Viz, this is why they hired you. Of course they would love to have the best of both worlds but it isn't legal unfortunately. Fred in the office may not be aware of this but the client as a whole is, including their middle/senior management, all of HR, the accountants and the legal dept if they have one.

[unixman]

I disagree that the client couldn't care less about your tax position, or status. It is precisely this status that allows the client to avoid NIC payments and a hundred other legally required expenses that they have with permies. Viz, this is why they hired you. Of course they would love to have the best of both worlds but it isn't legal unfortunately. Fred in the office may not be aware of this but the client as a whole is, including their middle/senior management, all of HR, the accountants and the legal dept if they have one.

What I am saying is if you say you are concerned that activity x is the sort of thing that could lead to you being deemed an employee, they will know exactly what you mean (not Fred) and they will care. That is the whole reason you are there. Anyone who does not understand it (like Fred) will likely keep quiet so as not to appear foolish.

[7specialgems]

'Put me down as tentative, I've got a load of project work that needs doing and that's my bread and butter'

Then on the day don't go because you're too busy.

Don't mention tax and IR35. That's internal to your company and none of your client's concern.

[jamesbrown]

What I am saying is if you say you are concerned that activity x is the sort of thing that could lead to you being deemed an employee, they will know exactly what you mean (not Fred) and they will care. That is the whole reason you are there. Anyone who does not understand it (like Fred) will likely keep quiet so as not to appear foolish.

I can't speak for you, but the following is how my relationships work. I'm there to deliver a set of tasks. I deliver the tasks. I don't deliver "not" the tasks. I'm polite at all times (see the advice above from SussexSeagull). I'm not there to save the client tax and the client is not motivated by saving me tax (incidentally, most of my clients are overseas).

The reason that some clients fail to treat contractors as suppliers is that they don't act like suppliers, they act like disguised employees. There are too many contractors that cannot see the wood for the trees w/r to IR35 and, as a result, massively over complicate things. You're not there to deliver "not" the tasks. Be polite.

[unixman]

There are too many contractors that cannot see the wood for the trees w/r to IR35 and, as a result, massively over complicate things.

To be fair to those contractors, IR35 was designed to achieve just this kind of confusion. Government "tests" intentionally muddied the water even further.

It's naive to think your status and tax position (they are one) are of no interest to the client. There's a reason you are there, and the client is not stupid.

[unixman]

Sorry I cannot attend your meeting as I have to steralize my golf clubs.