Client says NO to time off

[Underscore Pt2]

Now this is an interesting one. Generally, I book holidays when I feel like.

If I get offered an extension, then I will advise client of holiday plans during that time before I accept. Occasionally, I will mention or if they ask plans months in advance.

But I dont see the point in informing client of holiday plans 9 months in advance when contract is only for 3 months. Unless they ask.

Anyway, middle of 2nd extension now. Last time, I said ok off over easter for week. Client yeh no problem. I did mention BTW - its a while off but im off in august as well. Client not interested.

So extension offered so I reminded them/gave firm date. This is all booked and paid for.

Was surprised that client came to me and said NO cant allow those dates, sorry, not enough people in the office. WTF. I was advising not asking.

Cue bit of a disagreement me telling them this had been booked for a while and I could hardly control plans outside the scope of the contract anyway. Clients answer = not my problem.

So, flights non-refundable so we're talking almost £4000. Family mightily pissed off if I now cancel it as well.

Aint gonna happen. Not going to rock up in work in Aug and lose £4K on the deal.

Decent enough client but they do push the control thing a bit far. (Yes not good for IR35). Seriously tempted not to let them go down this slippery slope and tell them to shove their extension.

Long run might cost me money but I aint willing to lose money as mentioned like this. Its not like its a few £100 and a cancelled weekend away.

Thoughts?

Call in a substitute. Should be in your contract. Im doing that in July. Got a mate who will sit in my chair for 2 weeks whilst i pocket the day rate....and then i'll pay him later.

[psychocandy]

The client said "Not my problem".... what an utter tool.

I would say simply say, so you want me to lose £4000 and piss off my family, because there are not enough people in the office?

If he again says yes/not my problem, I would immediately hand in my notice.

At that point the relationship is ruined for me. No respect whatsoever. Total disdain for you as a human being. Forgetting what the missus would say, having to see my kids face as I tell them holiday cancelled?! No chance.

Client Co might not care in the grand scheme of things of course, but I simply could not continue working there.

If I stayed I know I would be giving the bare minimum effort, and yes, that's not professional, I should be the bigger man etc, but it's just not worth it.

With enough notice, which OP gave, no holiday time should suddenly be revoked. When informing them of time off, of course, take into consideration any scheduled project plans, but no reasonable request should be rejected, never mind try to revoke it at a later date.

Did the OP say it was revoked?

Rings true though. Clients only seem to think ahead for length of contract. Then when they want to extend the contractor expect it to all fall into place like this.

Possibly you are being a bit harsh here. Clients are like that IMHO. They think of what they want for the next few months and dont plan ahead. Then they expect contractors to be like permies and ASK for holidays to be allowed etc.

In OPs case though, surely they're better off sucking it up rather than letting him walk? Getting someone new in is going to be more hassle surely?

[psychocandy]

Call in a substitute. Should be in your contract. Im doing that in July. Got a mate who will sit in my chair for 2 weeks whilst i pocket the day rate....and then i'll pay him later.

Can imagine it....

Contractor: Im off on hols first two weeks July.
Client: No we havent got enough people in.
Contractor: OK I'll send my mate in.
Client: You mean someone new who doesnt know the system and we're already short in the office that week? No.

[TheFaQQer]

Can imagine it....

Contractor: Im off on hols first two weeks July.
Client: No we havent got enough people in.
Contractor: OK I'll send my mate in.
Client: You mean someone new who doesnt know the system and we're already short in the office that week? No.

I'll repeat what I wrote earlier:

And it depends on what you do - if it's a case of you were meant to be running tests for a couple of weeks, reporting failures and sending the results onto someone else, then the handover is going to be fairly short; if you are in the middle of designing the whole solution then it's going to be more of an issue.

If you consider how you can sell the services of your company to the client in a manner that wouldn't disrupt the situation, then you are more likely to succeed in your negotiations. If you imply that you are going to send in someone unqualified just to lounge around and bill for your time because they can't do the job (eg. "I'll just get my mate in") then you aren't likely to be able to persuade the client that you are providing a like-for-like replacement.

There's a huge difference between "I'll get my mate in then" and "OK, I know someone that I've worked with in the past who can cover for my personal absence during that time - I'll bring him in for a few days beforehand to make sure he's up to speed with what needs to happen, obviously that will be at my own cost, and that should ensure that you have someone that can make sure the project isn't delayed. And in an emergency, he'll be able to contact me if there is anything that cannot wait until my return."

[Underscore Pt2]

Can imagine it....

Contractor: Im off on hols first two weeks July.
Client: No we havent got enough people in.
Contractor: OK I'll send my mate in.
Client: You mean someone new who doesnt know the system and we're already short in the office that week? No.

I'm a PM with no implementations for those 2 weeks. I'll take a day to get him up to speed and then he can eaily manage all meetings during that time. Client is happy.

[jmo21]

Did the OP say it was revoked?

Rings true though. Clients only seem to think ahead for length of contract. Then when they want to extend the contractor expect it to all fall into place like this.

Possibly you are being a bit harsh here. Clients are like that IMHO. They think of what they want for the next few months and dont plan ahead. Then they expect contractors to be like permies and ASK for holidays to be allowed etc.

I was talking in general terms, but when I say revoked I just mean they try to tell you can't have time off. (forgetting the contractor "telling" v "asking" for time off thing)

And no, I do not think I'm being harsh at all. I have never experienced a client do that, and I'd be interested to hear if others have.

It'd need to be a really bad market, and me with a very small warchest before I would let a client mess me around like that.

I don't tend to take holidays around known project milestones, and any good business plans for contractor time off as well as permie time off.

And remember, the reason was "we need people in the office" as opposed to something maybe, possibly understandable like your project has a sudden new deadline for some regulatory requirement and only you can possibly do it.

Man, I almost wish this would happen to me so I could tell a pointy haired boss where to stick his contract.

"Not my problem" - who wants to work with people like that?! Life is too short.

[jmo21]

"OK, I know someone that I've worked with in the past who can cover for my personal absence during that time - I'll bring him in for a few days beforehand to make sure he's up to speed with what needs to happen, obviously that will be at my own cost, and that should ensure that you have someone that can make sure the project isn't delayed. And in an emergency, he'll be able to contact me if there is anything that cannot wait until my return."

How often does this happen though really? I've asked on here before, and I think there was maybe one or 2 that have managed to send in a sub.

Maybe it'd be a lot easier for a big consultancy do to, but then I've never seen that either.

[jamesbrown]

Perfect opportunity to do what any other business would do, and subcontract/substitute. Your contract does allow one or the other, right? This is one reason that many clients don't really "get" one-person outfits, because they tend to think and act more like employees than suppliers. Remember, if the client isn't sticking to the contract, you can proceed on that basis.

[TheFaQQer]

How often does this happen though really? I've asked on here before, and I think there was maybe one or 2 that have managed to send in a sub.

Maybe it'd be a lot easier for a big consultancy do to, but then I've never seen that either.

I've done it. I'm sure others have.

Would I be in a position to do it every time I'm unavailable? No.

[BrilloPad]

Personally I would take extension. Then throw a sickie.