Working abroad in EU - the perils of SC & Vetting upon your return

[SueEllen]

Which begs the question why Cameron is having an 'uphill struggle'
with the EU - stopping Benefits Migrants from the EU's poorer
countries, coming to the UK and taking flagrant advantage of British
Social Security.
Perhaps you should send him an email - naming the countries who
turn away Benefits Migrants, to bolster he's case with the EU.

He's not having an up hill struggle it's politics.

It's easier for Cameron to blame the EU and immigrants for the failings of your own government ministers and civil service than sort it out yourself.

Eirikur has provided one example of what happens I know others i.e. people who have worked abroad in the EU and have been turned down for JSA when they return to the UK, UK citizens who are told they aren't entitled to JSA or other benefits for various reasons. It's not a new phenomena.

UK benefits are based on a mixture of contributions and entitlement. Other EU countries systems are more contributions based. The entitlement part is mainly to take care of vulnerable people particularly children. So if you turn up in the UK with children they aren't allowed to starve and be homeless. If you turn up with no children then tough sh*t you can fend for yourself. There is a charity that does it, and local councils have paid in the past, to return homeless Polish people back to Poland.

[stek]

When I came to the UK (as an EU citizen) 9 years or so ago I had to proof I had sufficient means to be self sufficient including a private health insurance. I did not claim any benefits, rented privately and it took me just over two months to find a permie job.
Later when I applied for permanent residency I had to (again) supply all evidence that I was self sufficient during that period, bank account statements, statement from health insurance etc.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that there are rules now and you're not automatically allowed to stay indefinitely

You only need CSI if you are not economically active, ie students and self-sufficients need it, if you're working there's no requirement.

[ProjectManager]

....
The SC requirement - which tends to be duplicated by many other
Vetting agencies requirement - that candidates should have lived and
worked in the UK for the last 5 years.
...

I am pretty sure the above requirement is either misunderstood and wrongly stated on some non gov web sites or this specific matter is still not clearly documented.

I have seen the SC sticky and I have also read a lot on the Internet, hence why I am convinced that if there is such requirement at all it is for 3 years excluding the time abroad, the same way UK gov calculates UK stay for immigration purposes.

However, I might be wrong and would greatly appreciate direct links to some credible information sources.

[SueEllen]

I am pretty sure the above requirement is either misunderstood and wrongly stated on some non gov web sites or this specific matter is still not clearly documented.

I have seen the SC sticky and I have also read a lot on the Internet, hence why I am convinced that if there is such requirement at all it is for 3 years excluding the time abroad, the same way UK gov calculates UK stay for immigration purposes.

However, I might be wrong and would greatly appreciate direct links to some credible information sources.

The only source I've found that mentions years for each type of clearance is this one - Become Security Cleared

The government website -https://www.gov.uk/security-vetting-and-clearance doesn't mention any time period except for transfers.

[Scruff]

I am resident in the UK, but spend a month a year in South Africa. I got my clearance whilst I was out there. The key factor was maintaining a home in the UK.

[Tightfit]

I am pretty sure the above requirement is either misunderstood and wrongly stated on some non gov web sites or this specific matter is still not clearly documented.

I have seen the SC sticky and I have also read a lot on the Internet, hence why I am convinced that if there is such requirement at all it is for 3 years excluding the time abroad, the same way UK gov calculates UK stay for immigration purposes.

However, I might be wrong and would greatly appreciate direct links to some credible information sources.

Here it is - straight from the 'Vetting Agency' namely
Vetting enquiries @fco.gov.uk

Dear Sir,

Thank you for your enquiry regarding maintaining eligibility for SC Clearance.

You need to direct your query to your Sponsor / Employer.
As a guide, you are required to have a
footprint in the UK for a five year period, within
that time you must be resident in the UK for two
years, of which twelve months must be
consecutive."

Yours Sincerely

vettingenquiries@fco.gov.uk | FCO Services - Home

[ProjectManager]

Here it is - straight from the 'Vetting Agency' namely
Vetting enquiries @@fco.gov.uk

Dear Sir,

Thank you for your enquiry regarding maintaining eligibility for SC Clearance.

You need to direct your query to your Sponsor / Employer.
As a guide, you are required to have a
footprint in the UK for a five year period, within
that time you must be resident in the UK for two
years, of which twelve months must be
consecutive."

Yours Sincerely

vettingenquiries@fco.gov.uk | FCO Services - Home

Thank you, sir, one mystery now solved!

[Tightfit]

Here it is - straight from the 'Vetting Agency' namely
Vetting enquiries @fco.gov.uk

Dear Sir,

Thank you for your enquiry regarding maintaining eligibility for SC Clearance.

You need to direct your query to your Sponsor / Employer.
As a guide, you are required to have a
footprint in the UK for a five year period, within
that time you must be resident in the UK for two
years, of which twelve months must be
consecutive."

Yours Sincerely

vettingenquiries@fco.gov.uk | FCO Services - Home

Ok - so let's dissect the above guidelines and see how it
affects Contractors and Perms out 'grazing the fields of Euroland'

By maintaining a footprint in the UK for a 5 year period. I assume they are talking about uninterrupted entries on the Credit Reference Agencies ( Experian & Equifax ) credit reports. Therefore so long as the British Expat hasn't closed any of he's British Bank accounts, retained hes credit cards and maintains a house & mortgage in the UK. Then that's - that box ticked.

Even better the Eurojaunt Contractor or Permie, could
still legally remain on the UK Electoral Roll by registering
as a British Overseas voter ( by referring to he's previous
home address ) something all British Expats are entitled
to do for upto 15 years after leaving the UK.

Then where they go on to say 'you must be resident in the UK for two years, of which twelve months must be consecutive.'

Ok - therefore if a British contractor or permie took
a job for say 2 years in France, Germany or Spain
before returning to the UK - then so long as the rest
of the 5 year period, he was resident and working in
the UK. Then that's another box ticked for SC
eligibility, upon he's return to British shores.

Perhaps the only thing left out of the Vetting Agency feedback
are criminal convictions abroad. As UK Vetting no doubt don't
look further than the UK PNC Criminal record check but there
again - many government departments and agencies are
usually satisfied by the former British Expat producing what's
called a Police Certificate of Good Conduct in the European
country they were residing in.

Of course if anyone on the forum knows better or I'm
missing something, in my interpretations of the Vetting
Agency feedback, then please let us know.

[SueEllen]

Ok - so let's dissect the above guidelines and see how it
affects Contractors and Perms out 'grazing the fields of Euroland'

There is no need to dissect anything.

IT agencies make up the rules because they want people to get the role as quickly as possible so they can make money.

The traceability and residence criteria are just the start of getting clearance. There are other factors like relationships, financial problems etc.

Even with the basic criteria you stated like credit checking it's not clear cut. For example a 20 something year old who can't be credit referenced wouldn't be regarded as suspicious, but a 40 something year old might be.

There are four credit reference agencies in the UK. Three are used by most companies to check people and the fourth is used if there is anything really suspicious about you. You may not have a credit record recorded on all three especially the one the vetting agency uses to reference you.

I've seen permie adverts placed with an IT agency for a company I know well who state you need to hold clearance before applying for the job. However if you apply direct this isn't stated in the criteria - you just need to be able to gain clearance. So if you are looking for a permanent job and fit the basic vetting criteria, then work out who the company is and apply direct.

In the past I've seen adverts placed by IT agents for companies I can guess who they are due to the location demanding higher clearance than you would actually need to work there i.e. SC clearance when you need a DBS check.

Some companies have now wised up to this and actually check the adverts they place with the IT agencies. This means only when you apply and the agent phones you up do they tell you if you need to be credit checked, cleared or whatever. Others are now placing their adverts themselves.

If some of the people I know who work/contact in cleared jobs had gone through certain IT agents they would have never got the roles as they would have breached their made up criteria.

[Tightfit]

There is no need to dissect anything.

IT agencies make up the rules because they want people to get the role as quickly as possible so they can make money.

The traceability and residence criteria are just the start of getting clearance. There are other factors like relationships, financial problems etc.

Even with the basic criteria you stated like credit checking it's not clear cut. For example a 20 something year old who can't be credit referenced wouldn't be regarded as suspicious, but a 40 something year old might be.

There are four credit reference agencies in the UK. Three are used by most companies to check people and the fourth is used if there is anything really suspicious about you. You may not have a credit record recorded on all three especially the one the vetting agency uses to reference you.

I've seen permie adverts placed with an IT agency for a company I know well who state you need to hold clearance before applying for the job. However if you apply direct this isn't stated in the criteria - you just need to be able to gain clearance. So if you are looking for a permanent job and fit the basic vetting criteria, then work out who the company is and apply direct.

In the past I've seen adverts placed by IT agents for companies I can guess who they are due to the location demanding higher clearance than you would actually need to work there i.e. SC clearance when you need a DBS check.

Some companies have now wised up to this and actually check the adverts they place with the IT agencies. This means only when you apply and the agent phones you up do they tell you if you need to be credit checked, cleared or whatever. Others are now placing their adverts themselves.

If some of the people I know who work/contact in cleared jobs had gone through certain IT agents they would have never got the roles as they would have breached their made up criteria.

Of course all the other caveats apply to obtaining SC Security Clearance
apply - but you have gone .

That is were looking at a John or a Sheila, who have decided to work
abroad ( EU ) for a couple of years ( be it contract or Permanent )
before returning to their home in Britain, in order to resume full time
employment ( whether Perm or Contract ) in the UK.
Therefore in the topic scenario were assuming that John or Shelia
would have passed all the other tests ( no problem ) - the only
mark against them ( if you can call it that ) is that they have lived
& worked in one of the EU countries for the past two years.

So the only question that remains to be answered is will John &
Sheila be eligible for an SC Security job ( knowing full well they
would tick all the other boxes )

Of course the only caveats might be whether John or Sheila
have been SC Security cleared in the past before working
abroad. So the question concerns those people who have never
been SC cleared before ( during their working life ) no doubt
because they have only worked in previous roles where SC
wasn't required - and of course those people who have been
SC cleared in the past ( more than 5 years ago )