Economics

[original PM]

They do. What they don't do is stigmatise all unemployed and those on disability as all a bunch of criminals, based on the actions of the very small minority who cheat the system.

Which was the point BR14 was making.

According to this fraud overpayments stood at 1.5% in 2017.

The majority of claimants are not abusing the system.

It also needs to be noted that while on 1.5% of payment were due to fraud - how much is given out to people who see living on benefits as a way of life.

Years ago when I was in recruitment I used to see people who's 'job' was to go to as many interviews as possible each week to make out like they were looking for work but in reality they would put themselves across as completely unemployable - it is those people who need to be targetted - the benefits system should be seen as a safety net for if you fall on hard times - not a way of life.

[darmstadt]

It also needs to be noted that while on 1.5% of payment were due to fraud - how much is given out to people who see living on benefits as a way of life.

Years ago when I was in recruitment I used to see people who's 'job' was to go to as many interviews as possible each week to make out like they were looking for work but in reality they would put themselves across as completely unemployable - it is those people who need to be targetted - the benefits system should be seen as a safety net for if you fall on hard times - not a way of life.

I think we need to keep this post for posterity

[original PM]

I think we need to keep this post for posterity

Please do - I was in industrial recruitment (warehouse order pickers etc) for about 7 years after leaving Uni.

Very interesting job believe it or not - although a lot of my time was spent calling people to see if they could go to work immediately as the ones who were supposed to go never bothered to get up

Also this was pre mobile phones so you had to try and get people on land lines.

Also some people did not actually have a telephone in their house so you would have to leave a message with neighbour/friends etc

[Gibbon]

Tonnes of British-grown fruit wasted over shortages of EU workers amid no deal Brexit fears - ITV News



- seasonal workers either unwilling (EU) or unable (non EU) to come in and do a tough job for minimum wage
- uneconomic for out of work Brits to do it (travel, accommodation, low wages, loss of job seekers)
- uneconomic for farmers / growers to raise wages without putting prices up
- prices squeezed by large supermarkets so unable to go up by much anyway without being pushed on to the consumer
- consumers used to lower prices, if they go up much then demand drops and the large supermarkets won’t buy as much anyway

No easy solutions, but it’s a fair bet that one or both of food prices rising and farmers going out of business is going to happen over the next couple of years.

How about:

Oxbo 9120 Raspberry Harvester

Trouble is the EU has provided low wage workers which stifles innovation and perpetuates a low productivity.

[sasguru]

for about 7 years after leaving Uni.

Which poly did you attend?

[darmstadt]

How about:

Oxbo 9120 Raspberry Harvester

Trouble is the EU has provided low wage workers which stifles innovation and perpetuates a low productivity.

Well the UK is in the EU...

[Zigenare]

Well the UK is in the EU...

Not for long.

[meridian]

How about:

Oxbo 9120 Raspberry Harvester

Trouble is the EU has provided low wage workers which stifles innovation and perpetuates a low productivity.

“The EU” hasn’t provided low wage anything. Minimum wage is set and fixed by the U.K. government.

It doesn’t matter whether the actual work is done by a U.K. or non-U.K. national, the cost to the grower is fixed.

What you’re suggesting though is that costs should increase on the grower to force-improve innovation. Which is a valid position but, as I pointed out, will lead to a short to medium term increase in prices and/or growers going out of business, until the tech innovation catches up with the crash in worker availability.

[original PM]

Which poly did you attend?

Edinburgh - think it was a uni then and still is now.

[Gibbon]

“The EU” hasn’t provided low wage anything. Minimum wage is set and fixed by the U.K. government.

It doesn’t matter whether the actual work is done by a U.K. or non-U.K. national, the cost to the grower is fixed.

What you’re suggesting though is that costs should increase on the grower to force-improve innovation. Which is a valid position but, as I pointed out, will lead to a short to medium term increase in prices and/or growers going out of business, until the tech innovation catches up with the crash in worker availability.

The EU has provided us with workers willing to work for low wages, this in turn reduces productivity. There may be short term pain but the long term gains are worth it. Higher productivity and automation will provide more higher worth jobs.