No deal off the table now?

[Lance]

Anyway the question comes back to whether we need a hard border between Eire and NI - everybody says no

So sorted then?

If we leave the customs union, and end FoM then we need a border (by WTO rules as well as EU rules). Whether it's a virtual border, or a physical border it's still a border.
The term 'hard border' is fairly meaningless and used to try and describe a complex situation to the British public (who aren't really very good at understanding complex problems).

There is a border between Switzerland and the EU. They have customs posts at many of them. They perform searches sometimes. They make you pay a road tax (vignette) if you don't already have one. They confiscate meat if you have more than a wurst or two.
And that's despite Switzerland being in a Schengen-type FoM agreement.

Is that a hard border? Depends what you mean by hard border.

It's complex.

[Old Greg]

Thank you for the clarification - although when you say it is not about terrorism it seems some people believe terrorism will return if we are to look at/change the GFA

Anyway the question comes back to whether we need a hard border between Eire and NI - everybody says no

So sorted then?

Allow me to clarify further. I didn't say it's not about terrorism. I said it's not just about terrorism.

Everybody doesn't say that no border is needed, because nobody knows on what terms the UK will leave the EU. What is known is that the UK is committed as a GFA signatory to no hard border and that this is currently facilitated by its membership of SM and CU. If UK wants to leaves these and fulfil its international commitments, then it needs an agreed alternative arrangement, such as the backstop.

[Old Greg]

If we leave the customs union, and end FoM then we need a border (by WTO rules as well as EU rules). Whether it's a virtual border, or a physical border it's still a border.
The term 'hard border' is fairly meaningless and used to try and describe a complex situation to the British public (who aren't really very good at understanding complex problems).

There is a border between Switzerland and the EU. They have customs posts at many of them. They perform searches sometimes. They make you pay a road tax (vignette) if you don't already have one. They confiscate meat if you have more than a wurst or two.
And that's despite Switzerland being in a Schengen-type FoM agreement.

Is that a hard border? Depends what you mean by hard border.

It's complex.

FoM is not relevant to the border with Ireland as the CTA will continue. This is about goods.

[AtW]

How about leaving WTO? So no requirement on UK to put hard border.

[Lance]

FoM is not relevant to the border with Ireland as the CTA will continue. This is about goods.

I get that.

But when we leave, and we have no more FoM with the EU, how long before the c*nts who got us into this mess realise that any EU person can travel to ireland and then waltz over the border into NI and get a ferry to the mainland with not a single passport check (other than to get into ROI which they can do)?
What happens then?

[AtW]

But when we leave, and we have no more FoM with the EU, how long before the c*nts who got us into this mess realise that any EU person can travel to ireland and then waltz over the border into NI and get a ferry to the mainland with not a single passport check (other than to get into ROI which they can do)?
What happens then?

Hard border in ports of entry, just like there is one now...

[Old Greg]

I get that.

But when we leave, and we have no more FoM with the EU, how long before the c*nts who got us into this mess realise that any EU person can travel to ireland and then waltz over the border into NI and get a ferry to the mainland with not a single passport check (other than to get into ROI which they can do)?
What happens then?

There are ID checks between NI and GB. DUP don't really like to talk about it. They'll beef them up.

[Lance]

There are ID checks between NI and GB. DUP don't really like to talk about it. They'll beef them up.

Oh. When did they come in?

I know you have to show ID to get on a plane, but last time I travelled by ferry to Belfast, or Dublin, there was no check at all.

[meridian]

I get that.

But when we leave, and we have no more FoM with the EU, how long before the c*nts who got us into this mess realise that any EU person can travel to ireland and then waltz over the border into NI and get a ferry to the mainland with not a single passport check (other than to get into ROI which they can do)?
What happens then?

It's not hugely relevant even in Great Britain. Anyone can fly into Heathrow, pass a tourist visa check, and then stay.

There are employer checks, landlord checks, social welfare checks, etc. These are the real people that maintain our immigration policies.

[Old Greg]

Oh. When did they come in?

I know you have to show ID to get on a plane, but last time I travelled by ferry to Belfast, or Dublin, there was no check at all.

Nominally you need ID. When I get ferry into RoI, I just get asked on arrival what nationality the car passengers are.

As I said, they'll quietly beef them up.