Brexit Carnage

[original PM]

We will almost certainly have one now to break the impasse.
We could also have one in 15 years time.
It's democracy

Nah - I do not think it is a good idea to have one right now - that is too short a time and makes a mockery of the democratic process.

You need to let people choose and then you have to give that choice time to play out - people will never learn if you do not let them reap the consequences of their actions.

Do you not agree?

[sasguru]

Nah - I do not think it is a good idea to have one right now - that is too short a time and makes a mockery of the democratic process.

You need to let people choose and then you have to give that choice time to play out - people will never learn if you do not let them reap the consequences of their actions.

Do you not agree?

I want a hard Brexit, so I can laugh at you cretins.
But it's not going to happen, there's no majority forr either May's deal or a hard Brexit.
The politicians will welch out and dump it on the people again.

[Yorkie62]

I want a hard Brexit, so I can laugh at you cretins.
But it's not going to happen, there's no majority forr either May's deal or a hard Brexit.
The politicians will welch out and dump it on the people again.

and divide the country even more than we are now. In order to have a meaningful 2nd referendum we need to understand what the alternative is, and if that alternative is to remain then we need to know what the EU's terms are for us to rescind A50, i.e. adopt the Euro, relinquish our veto, and possibly other demands. Yes there will be demands because the EU holds all the cards if we want to rescind our A50.

We are caught between the proverbial rock and a hard place

[BlasterBates]

and divide the country even more than we are now. In order to have a meaningful 2nd referendum we need to understand what the alternative is, and if that alternative is to remain then we need to know what the EU's terms are for us to rescind A50, i.e. adopt the Euro, relinquish our veto, and possibly other demands. Yes there will be demands because the EU holds all the cards if we want to rescind our A50.

We are caught between the proverbial rock and a hard place

The French and German governments as well as other countries have stated that the UK could stay on the old terms if Brexit was reversed.

UK could cancel Brexit and stay in EU on same terms, says French government | The Independent,

It goes without saying that this would be a prerequisite to have Remain on the ballot paper, it would also be clear to EU members that any deviation from this would lead to a BRINO or no deal.

[meridian]

and divide the country even more than we are now. In order to have a meaningful 2nd referendum we need to understand what the alternative is, and if that alternative is to remain then we need to know what the EU's terms are for us to rescind A50, i.e. adopt the Euro, relinquish our veto, and possibly other demands. Yes there will be demands because the EU holds all the cards if we want to rescind our A50.

We are caught between the proverbial rock and a hard place

Not necessarily. There’s a court case being decided on now on whether the UK can unilaterally rescind.

There are also other regulations that the EU need to follow (for example, they cannot change any rebate until the end of this financial period, and even then it requires the agreement of all member states, and we are still a member state).

[BR14]

Not necessarily. There’s a court case being decided on now on whether the UK can unilaterally rescind.

Ahh, - right, was wondering about that

[sasguru]

....In order to have a meaningful 2nd referendum we need to understand what the alternative is,

The 2nd referendum should have just two options (we'll only get to it if BRINO fails):

1. Real a.k.a "hard" Brexit
2. Remain on same terms.

Which is what it should have been in the first place rather than Brexit cheerleaders misleading people that they could have their cake and eat it.

[TestMangler]

Ahh, - right, was wondering about that

judgement is meant to be tomorrow. Of course they'll allow the UK to rescind A50 without penalty.

They need us more than we need them

[Yorkie62]

The 2nd referendum should have just two options (we'll only get to it if BRINO fails):

1. Real a.k.a "hard" Brexit
2. Remain on same terms.

Which is what it should have been in the first place rather than Brexit cheerleaders misleading people that they could have their cake and eat it.

But how do you know we can remain on the same terms. That is by no means certain.

[sasguru]

But how do you know we can remain on the same terms. That is by no means certain.

I think that will need to be established before a referendum. There'll need to be an extension period too.