Expenses and P11D submission

[ceejay007]

Howdy all,

i'm in a bit of a pickle and i'm hoping someone can give me some helpful advise

Nievely, i made the mistake of not getting an accountant after setting up my LTDCo. A massive undersight on my behalf, but too late in the day to do anything about it now.

So, I've been contracting since August 2012, and am filling out my self assessment, due today.

I've paid myself a 7k salary, and have also accumulated about 2k of expenses (rail tickets), bike miles and entertainment. unfortunately, my bank didnt give me a company debit card, so it's all gone on to my personal account/card.

I want to claim this amount back, however, i see i should submit a P11D.

I have not enrolled for PAYE, so I cannot submit a P11d.

Does anyone know what will happen if i submit my expenses without the P11D going in?

HMRC have never sent me anything requesting the P11D - yeesterday was the first time i had heard of it.

Thanks in adviance all.

And newbies, get an accountant

[Clare@InTouch]

There would be no tax implications to the expenses as long as they are all wholly and exclusively for business purposes, so no loss to HMRC which makes things easier to resolve.

I would suggest giving HMRC a call and explaining the position to them. In theory they could register you for PAYE and then you'd file a (very late) P11D. Ask them about this and what the penalty position would be before you do it though!

Another option is just to forget about the expenses, don't reclaim them, don't add them to your tax return and treat it as a learning experience.

If your employer hasn't reimbursed you (which they haven't) then you make a claim as an employee instead - have a read through here: HM Revenue & Customs: How to get allowances and reliefs - employees or directors

Oh, and get an accountant

[ceejay007]

Thanks a lot for your response Clare.

I was a bit reluctant to call HMRC as i thought they may start hitting me with fines, which i would prefer not to receive!

My company has reimbursed the expenses, does this complicate things? It is under 2k, so not a large amount of money.

Does HMRC cross reference the P11D with expenses listed on the directors/employees SA? As you say, expenses are wholly and exclusively for business purposes, so there is no tax owing. I just don't want it sending off flags when they have no P11D to cross check with.

[Clare@InTouch]

Thanks a lot for your response Clare.

I was a bit reluctant to call HMRC as i thought they may start hitting me with fines, which i would prefer not to receive!

My company has reimbursed the expenses, does this complicate things? It is under 2k, so not a large amount of money.

Does HMRC cross reference the P11D with expenses listed on the directors/employees SA? As you say, expenses are wholly and exclusively for business purposes, so there is no tax owing. I just don't want it sending off flags when they have no P11D to cross check with.

HMRC do indeed cross reference various forms, and they often enquire into differences. You may have difficulty putting them on your SA if you don't have a PAYE reference though - where are you adding them in?

[ceejay007]

I've filled in the Éxpenses payments recieved and balancing charges'box, with the amount my Co reimbursed me with, and 'Business travel and subsistence expenses'box, with the amount spent on expenses - both the same figure, cancelling each other out.

[Clare@InTouch]

What exactly were the expenses? If it's things that the business was liable for and you just paid for, then it wouldn't need to go on the P11D anyway (such as booking a hotel room).

If you call HMRC to explain then it's entirely likely that they won't issue a penalty, although they do of course have the right to. I think you'd be very unlucky if it happened though, and it would just be an over-zealous member of staff that you could then appeal against.

[ceejay007]

Ok, thanks Clare, I might give them a call.

The expenses were for train fares to and from the office i was working at, which is the majority of the claim, and bicycle mileage and xmas party (entertainment).

[Clare@InTouch]

You'd certainly need a P11d for the entertainment, but mileage doesn't need to go on the P11d or your tax return as long as it was within the approved limits (20p per mile for a bike).

[ceejay007]

Yeh, i think i'll exclude the entertainment. What about the train fare?

[Clare@InTouch]

Yeh, i think i'll exclude the entertainment. What about the train fare?

The entertainment should go on the P11d, as should the train fare. Just ignore the mileage.