• Visitors can check out the Forum FAQ by clicking this link. You have to register before you can post: click the REGISTER link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. View our Forum Privacy Policy.
  • Want to receive the latest contracting news and advice straight to your inbox? Sign up to the ContractorUK newsletter here. Every sign up will also be entered into a draw to WIN £100 Amazon vouchers!

HMRC firing off some "warning shots"

Collapse
X
  •  
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    #51
    The moral debate is an interesting one. Back when I was more naive, on the recommendation of a friend I used an EBT scheme for a few months before seeing the light (largely thanks to this board) and switching to running a Ltd. My bad, I should have done my research and I regret going near the EBT scheme, both because I now have the nagging worry that it might retrospectively be made illegal and land me with a manageable but highly inconvenient tax bill, but also from a moral point of view - looking back it WAS wrong to try and pay virtually no tax.

    The trouble is, it's easy to use morality to categorise the extremes of behaviour - i.e. EBT/Offshore = morally wrong, full PAYE = morally right. But when it comes to the finer shades, with everyone's morality tuned by different inputs it's impossible to have everyone draw the line in the same place, and that's where the laws come in to play. You and I may differ in opinion when it comes to whether it's morally acceptable to have a husband/wife owning 50% of the shares, whether it's ok to claim a training course as a tax deductible expense, and so on, but neither of us have the authority to impose their views on others - that's where the law comes in.

    Another point on morality - IR35 is there (theoretically) to stop the 'morally unacceptable' behaviour of disguised employment. But, from a moral perspective, even if a contractor is operating inside IR35, why should they pay more tax than, say a shopkeeper who has had the same shop, the same stock, the same customers, the same repeat business, for 20 years? Why should the shopkeeper be fully entitled to operate a Ltd and take advantage of paying a small wage and taking the rest as dividends, but the contractor isn't allowed to? In my mind, the shopkeeper is more of a disguised employee, has less risk, and more future certainty than a contractor that has to find new work every six months, in varying locations, at varying rates, and with little certainty.

    I'm not saying shopkeepers should be considered targets for IR35 investigations, just that morality is a difficult yardstick to use in matters like this.

    Comment


      #52
      Originally posted by captainham View Post
      I love the way you are trying to make out that you post here to give others advice on what an appropriate setup for that individual might be, when in actual fact the only approach you advocate is an offshore scheme which, morality aside, is hardly described as risk-free in the current climate.

      You carry on though, it makes me chuckle.
      As I said I do usually try and stop myself from being condescending to morons.

      I don't advocate offshore schemes. Each to their own after being informed with the facts is what I advocate. If you had any desire to check little details sometimes known as facts you would know that I am an antogonist to both the offshore and umbrella posters here.

      I am glad your miscomprehension makes you chuckle.

      You are either confusing me with someone else or you really are one of those people I usually try and be nice to out of pity.

      Please let me know if you need help with any of the big words I've used or any other concepts that are far too complex for you to comprehend.
      Last edited by prozak; 27 November 2012, 14:36.

      Comment


        #53
        In Scooter we trust

        Comment


          #54
          Originally posted by meanttobeworking View Post
          ....both because I now have the nagging worry that it might retrospectively be made illegal and land me with a manageable but highly inconvenient tax bill...
          Nothing you have done with your EBT can retrospectively be made ILLEGAL. It is either legal or illegal already.

          That is a bridge too far even for HMRC.

          Comment


            #55
            Point taken - I just meant "something gets changed which results in me receiving a bill"

            Comment


              #56
              Originally posted by meanttobeworking View Post
              Point taken - I just meant "something gets changed which results in me receiving a bill"
              It's a very important distinction. But one that HMRC and the daily mail type papers like to ensure is not understood. FUD and muddy waters are great weapons.

              Not everyone understands the difference. I don't recall the exact details of the person who was being interviewed (pretty certain it was a labour politician) on Radio4 but they also referred to "illegal avoidance" (i think the term was).

              I almost spat my coffee out.

              Comment


                #57
                Originally posted by prozak View Post
                I don't advocate offshore schemes. Each to their own after being informed with the facts is what I advocate. If you had any desire to check little details sometimes known as facts you would know that I am an antogonist to both the offshore and umbrella posters here.
                I'll email Admin on your behalf, somebody must have stolen your login details.

                http://forums.contractoruk.com/gener...ml#post1649518

                If an offshore vehicle is fine for a one month contract, then it must surely be ok for any length of contract.

                Comment


                  #58
                  Originally posted by LisaContractorUmbrella View Post
                  BUT what they should not do is change the law in the present and apply it to the past
                  Yeah, but if it's always been known to everyone as a 'loophole' rather than 'the right thing to do', it's a predictable risk that people have knowingly taken on (and if not 'knowingly' then with a fair amount of deliberate ignorance). I somehow can't scrape together a whole lot of sympathy.
                  Last edited by formant; 27 November 2012, 15:25. Reason: typo

                  Comment


                    #59
                    Originally posted by captainham View Post
                    If an offshore vehicle is fine for a one month contract, then it must surely be ok for any length of contract.
                    If you say so. You go right ahead. You are one person who definitely does not need any facts. They would be a bit beyond you anyhow.

                    If you try real hard to read the statement you might also comprehend what I wrote. What does "offshore vehicle" mean to you?

                    In isolation any statement could be misconstrued.

                    Based on a few here form you I have jumped to a few conclusions about your good self also.

                    ps. You might want to get a good definition of advocate.
                    Last edited by prozak; 27 November 2012, 15:05.

                    Comment


                      #60
                      Originally posted by formant View Post
                      Yeah, but if it's always been known to everyone as a 'loophole' rather than 'the right thing to do', it's a predictable risk that people have knowingly taken on (and if know 'knowingly' then with a fair amount of deliberate ignorance). I somehow can't scrape together a whole lot of sympathy.
                      No absolutely not! Define 'always' and 'everyone'
                      Connect with me on LinkedIn

                      Follow us on Twitter.

                      ContractorUK Best Forum Advisor 2015

                      Comment

                      Working...
                      X