Daily Substinence

[AJ1982]

Hi All,

Firstly, fantastic board, lots of great advice.

Secondly, weird but easy question... I have just started contracting through an umbrealla company, who inform me I can claim a daily substinence allowance, however the distance from my home to place of work is a 7 minute walk.

From what I have read the substinence allowance is only available when you are "away from your home". The umbrealla company offer no real advice. I have a funny feeling HMRC will look upon this claim and say I am extracting the urine. Sometimes I go home for lunch, or goto the local public house, or local cafe. So all receipted stuff of course I can claim, but can I, given my proximity?

Thirdly, thanks and apologies if this has been asked before.

AJ

[Clare@InTouch]

You can claim subsistence if you incur an additional cost because of the contract. If you go home for lunch, you shouldn't claim. If you stay on site and have to buy a sandwich then you can claim it.

All subject to the 24 month rule of course.

[stek]

You can claim subsistence if you incur an additional cost because of the contract. If you go home for lunch, you shouldn't claim. If you stay on site and have to buy a sandwich then you can claim it.

All subject to the 24 month rule of course.

Why is that? Even as a permie I'd have to buy (or make) my lunch - why is a contractor any different?

[Clare@InTouch]

Why is that? Even as a permie I'd have to buy (or make) my lunch - why is a contractor any different?

As a permie you're caught by the 24 month rule from day one, therefore it's commuting and not allowed. Same for travel to work.

[AJ1982]

Thanks Clare, so staff canteen is claimable, I would imagine this is lost if I decide to go ltd as staff canteen is a trigger for IR35?

What about off site lunch be it pub or takeaway?

I only ask as the only substinence information I can find relates to working "away from home", where of course I am working "away" the case is that "home" is footsteps away and I can see HMRC beating me when they find out I am potentially taking the michael.

Or am I worrying over nothing?

Thanks

AJ

[rawly]

Well, may be I've been doing this wrong for many years, but this is what I claim based on advise from accountants:

I live in Cheshire and sometimes I work in London (Overnight Stay) and sometimes Nottingham (I commute the 120 miles return journey each day)

1) When in London and staying Overnight I claim:

a) Accommodation at Cost
b) Breakfast, Lunch, Evening Meal at Cost Plus £5 Sub (not receiptable) for misc.
c) Driving Mileage To/From Place of Work.

2) When Commuting the daily journey to Notts, so at Home overnight:

a) Just the £5 Sub. (not receiptable)
b) Driving Mileage To/ From Place of Work.

So, in your case with a 7 minute commute, I'd have thought just the £5 Flat rate?

[Wanderer]

Why is that? Even as a permie I'd have to buy (or make) my lunch - why is a contractor any different?

As a permie, your employer can pay your business travel expenses from your normal place of work to a remote site and there is no BIK on this as it is an allowable expense.

As a contractor, your employer (your LTD or Umbrella) can pay your business travel expenses from your normal place of work (typically your home) to a remote site and there is no BIK on this as it is an allowable expense.

[Contreras]

As a permie, your employer can pay your business travel expenses from your normal place of work to a remote site and there is no BIK on this as it is an allowable expense.

As a contractor, your employer (your LTD or Umbrella) can pay your business travel expenses from your normal place of work (typically your home) to a remote site and there is no BIK on this as it is an allowable expense.

Is a "7 minute walk" classed as business travel?

And if it is, then at what point is it not so?

Claiming lunch as a subsistence payment is contingent on it being associated with an allowable business journey, AFAIK.

[mudskipper]

Well, may be I've been doing this wrong for many years, but this is what I claim based on advise from accountants:

I live in Cheshire and sometimes I work in London (Overnight Stay) and sometimes Nottingham (I commute the 120 miles return journey each day)

1) When in London and staying Overnight I claim:

a) Accommodation at Cost
b) Breakfast, Lunch, Evening Meal at Cost Plus £5 Sub (not receiptable) for misc.
c) Driving Mileage To/From Place of Work.

2) When Commuting the daily journey to Notts, so at Home overnight:

a) Just the £5 Sub. (not receiptable)
b) Driving Mileage To/ From Place of Work.

So, in your case with a 7 minute commute, I'd have thought just the £5 Flat rate?

I think 2a is incorrect - the non-receipted £5 (personal incidental expenditure) is only for overnight stays only. Howerver, you can claim receipted lunch.

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

I think in these circumstances a team of accountants could probably argue the case for claiming subsistence but subsistence is the cost of a meal associated with business travel and I think you would be hard pushed to convince HMR&C that a 7 minute walk could be classified as a business journey even though you may be able to make the technical argument. At the end of the day the OP has the option to walk home each day and have lunch there with no cost associated; to expense the cost would therefore be a personal choice - again, in these circumstances, I would not like to have to make the case to HMRC.