No To Retro Tax – Campaign Against Section 58 Finance Act 2008

[Dieselpower]

CN

Closure Notice for 2007/08.

Apologies, I should have made it clearer.

But surely noone was still actually still using the scheme in 07/08 after all the enquiries had started a few years earlier? Has he had a CN for the earlier years yet? This is quite important info Ninja - if you could kindly PM me or DR?

Thanks

[Dieselpower]

K005

I would start with showing him K005, (email after Jane Kennedy had seen JCHR impact assessment)

here is an extract



This is why we need our MPs to do something.

Point 17 is the strongest point.

[BettySwollocks]

Re:CH for 2008...

But surely noone was still actually still using the scheme in 07/08 after all the enquiries had started a few years earlier? Has he had a CN for the earlier years yet? This is quite important info Ninja - if you could kindly PM me or DR?

Thanks

MP put me through the scheme in 2008. I didn't join until the 05/06 tax year and knew nothing of the furore already in full swing regarding the scheme and unsurprisingly, MP didn't mention it in their sales presentation. MP put this statement on my tax return for 08:

"" Foreign trust income of £89,456” has been declared on this return, on
page SP1, as personal Partnership trading income. This income represents
the share of the trading profits of an Isle of Man partnership in which
the trustee of the Settlement is a partner and I am the income
beneficiary. Such treatment is required by Section 58 FA 2008
subsections 4 and 5. However, I am advised that the trading profits of
an Isle of Man Partnership are exempt from UK tax under article 3 of the
UK/IOM Double Tax Treaty and that I am entitled to Double Tax Relief on
my trust income notwithstanding subsection 4 and 5 FA 2008 S.58 which
are considered to be illegal provisions in breach of the UK Human Rights
Act and/or that section 58 FA 2008 has no application as it is my
trustee who is the person legally entitled to the profits of the Isle of
Man partnership not me. I am entitled to the profits of the trust by
virtue of the terms governing the trust not the terms of the
partnership. A claim for double tax relief is made accordingly.
I have used Box 8 on page SP1 to make the claim as there are no other
suitable boxes on the Return for the adjustment."

Anyone else in this situation regarding 2008...?

As the N.T.R.T campaign doesn't cover this situation I'm working on the assumption that I'll have to cough up for this tax year...

[Emigre]

MP put me through the scheme in 2008. I didn't join until the 05/06 tax year and knew nothing of the furore already in full swing regarding the scheme and unsurprisingly, MP didn't mention it in their sales presentation. MP put this statement on my tax return for 08:

"" Foreign trust income of £nn,nnn” has been declared on this return, on
page SP1, as personal Partnership trading income. This income represents
the share of the trading profits of an Isle of Man partnership in which
the trustee of the Settlement is a partner and I am the income
beneficiary. Such treatment is required by Section 58 FA 2008
subsections 4 and 5. However, I am advised that the trading profits of
an Isle of Man Partnership are exempt from UK tax under article 3 of the
UK/IOM Double Tax Treaty and that I am entitled to Double Tax Relief on
my trust income notwithstanding subsection 4 and 5 FA 2008 S.58 which
are considered to be illegal provisions in breach of the UK Human Rights
Act and/or that section 58 FA 2008 has no application as it is my
trustee who is the person legally entitled to the profits of the Isle of
Man partnership not me. I am entitled to the profits of the trust by
virtue of the terms governing the trust not the terms of the
partnership. A claim for double tax relief is made accordingly.
I have used Box 8 on page SP1 to make the claim as there are no other
suitable boxes on the Return for the adjustment."

Anyone else in this situation regarding 2008...?

As the N.T.R.T campaign doesn't cover this situation I'm working on the assumption that I'll have to cough up for this tax year...

Hi BS. Yes, I was still in the scheme in 2007/08, and I expect a good number of others are too. Remember that HMRC never provided any evidence that the scheme did not work. More to the point, all the evidence from HMRC suggests that the scheme DID work. So there was never really a "furore in full swing". There is now though!!! The same rules apply for 2007/08 as for any of the previous years and so the NTRT campaign DOES cover the situation. BN66 was announced on 12th March 2008. In other words after you had been using the scheme all tax year. It is therefore retrospective within the tax year.

ADMIN/BS: Please edit post to delete the amount on the original post. It could identify individual to the wrong people. Thanks

[BrilloPad]

BN66 was announced on 12th March 2000.

2008? Or was that the HMRC time machine in operation?

[Emigre]

2008? Or was that the HMRC time machine in operation?

Nice one! Edited. Thank you sir. tardis gone in for a service

[BettySwollocks]

Hi BS. Yes, I was still in the scheme in 2007/08, and I expect a good number of others are too. Remember that HMRC never provided any evidence that the scheme did not work. More to the point, all the evidence from HMRC suggests that the scheme DID work. So there was never really a "furore in full swing". There is now though!!! The same rules apply for 2007/08 as for any of the previous years and so the NTRT campaign DOES cover the situation. BN66 was announced on 12th March 2008. In other words after you had been using the scheme all tax year. It is therefore retrospective within the tax year.

ADMIN/BS: Please edit post to delete the amount on the original post. It could identify individual to the wrong people. Thanks

Hi Emigre.

Apologies if this point has already been discussed on this forum but my personal belief (and I hope to be proven wrong) is that my tax treatment for a given tax year is defined in my return i.e. until my return is completed, no decision has been made. Like most people mine was submitted some time in Jan 2009 and I'm sure Hector will take the view that the decision to use the scheme was taken then and that's well after the S58 announcement and/or date of commencement as defined by applying the Rees rules that NTRT is pushing for...

[DonkeyRhubarb]

Suo Motu

Montpelier would like to hear from any clients who were in the Suo Motu scheme 2001/2 or 2002/3.

PM or email me and I will let you know who to contact.

Many thanks
DR

donkeyrhubarb AT rocketmail.com

[portseven]

what are the rees rules??

[Emigre]

Hi Emigre.

Apologies if this point has already been discussed on this forum but my personal belief (and I hope to be proven wrong) is that my tax treatment for a given tax year is defined in my return i.e. until my return is completed, no decision has been made. Like most people mine was submitted some time in Jan 2009 and I'm sure Hector will take the view that the decision to use the scheme was taken then and that's well after the S58 announcement and/or date of commencement as defined by applying the Rees rules that NTRT is pushing for...

Hi Betty

Firstly, please edit your earlier post today to remove the amount paid through the trust. It could help HMRC identify you.

Second, you have asked a valid question. However, let's suppose you set yourself up a limited company on 6 April 2007 and operated that way for the tax year. Surely, that is the point in time that defined your tax basis for the year? You need to follow the money in this. During 2007/08 your receipts were made up of your income from self-employment and receipts from your family trust. The cashflows of those passed through a partnership, to the trust and being an Interest In Possession trust were passed on to you or your nominated beneficiaries. That is a true reflection of what you actually did in 2007/08. To say it was something else would be inaccurate and thus inappropriate. Even today, the changed tax legislation arising from S58 has not been tested at the Tax Tribunal. There are several people who are prepared to argue that S58 does not apply to us.

I don't want to raise your hopes in that area but it is quite possible.