No To Retro Tax – Campaign Against Section 58 Finance Act 2008

[BettySwollocks]

If HMRC are going to send out APNs to those whose DOTAS numbers are on their list then I don't see how they can send out APNs to those who didn't put a number on their tax returns. It would have to be a follower of a scheme with a DOTAS number.

I've checked and there are no DOTAS numbers on my returns. I'm sure I would have put them on if MP had told me to. Seems odd that I haven't got any. This may mean that those of us who didn't have a DOTAS number to put on their tax returns will have to wait a little longer for their APNs. I suppose that's a good thing.

Just because the number isn't on the return doesn't mean your scheme didn't have one...

I had two returns for 06 and 07 that didn't have the number on and Brannigan is using that as an excuse to use Discovery although, according to NTRT, any scheme that existed prior to the DOTAS scheme coming into being, was not required to include the number on a return.

It would be good to get that last point independently confirmed as then I could go back to Brannigan, point out this detail and re-request he cancels his enquiry for those years...

One final point: does anyone know if HMRC actually audit the review of a return i.e. can they prove they actually studied it...?

This would also be a useful argument for all those who have return enquiries re-opened using Discovery just because the DOTAS number wasn't on there - if they couldn't prove they actually looked at it within the year, what difference does it make if the number's on there or not...?

[helen7]

CTD Question

Hi,

How do we go about getting confirmation on paying APN's with CTD and taking advantage of the non-accural of interest?

I am assuming if the CTD doesn't stop the interest on APN it will be in our interest to withdrawal the appeal and just pay via the normal route.

[smalldog]

This is ANOTHER thing that gets me about HMRC. Are we affected by APN or not? Straightforward question.

Hello Alan - I know you are reading this. Get on the case will you please? Or are you going to carry on being a ?

Don't forget to go crying to the police or your mamma when you get upset - big girls blouse.

Im gonna phone them and ask the same question, how on earth is someone supposed to try and financially plan there way out of something on the basis of an unknown, particularly as this has such a massive impact??

[warlord]

Here's the list for this evening's 2nd reading at 19:30. Can only find Lord Deighton on twitter. If anyone can find the others, please post.

In the meantime, it's 10 salient tweets to @UKHouseofLords

L Davies of Oldham
L Deighton (Minister)
@Infra_minister
L Flight
L Joffe
5 L Lawson of Blaby
L MacGregor of Pulham Market
L Razzall
L Wakeham

Come on get Tweeting.

[smalldog]

Come on get Tweeting.

is there any point, do they have teeth, can they influence change?

[OneUnited]

Im gonna phone them and ask the same question, how on earth is someone supposed to try and financially plan there way out of something on the basis of an unknown, particularly as this has such a massive impact??

Can NTRT not get this information, they must have some direct links to HMRC.

I stress again the person I called yesterday informed me (he called me back twice with the same information) that an APN MAY be sent out in the next 20 months which is bloody useless

[warlord]

is there any point, do they have teeth, can they influence change?

Worth a tweet. All publicity.

[smalldog]

Can NTRT not get this information, they must have some direct links to HMRC.

I stress again the person I called yesterday informed me (he called me back twice with the same information) that an APN MAY be sent out in the next 20 months which is bloody useless

trouble is, if you kick up a stink and force the issue they will send the brown envelope sooner rather than later with an, OK here is removal of the uncertainty pay us now message! so difficult to know whether to shake the tiger by the tail or not...I know its gonna be nail biting waiting to see what happens, but might be the most sensible thing to do, if nothing else it could give some people time to sort things financially.

[lucozade]

Come on get Tweeting.

done

[OnYourBikeGB]

Can NTRT not get this information, they must have some direct links to HMRC.

I stress again the person I called yesterday informed me (he called me back twice with the same information) that an APN MAY be sent out in the next 20 months which is bloody useless

They are hedging their bets, and this remains in line with what Homer said. She said they have not yet decided if they will extend this beyond issuing APNs where they have a FTT decision. That's a nice safe little option for them, especially in the initial 6 month reporting period. I am not sure to what extent we will be affected. It's a risk for them to go after us early on because we are already in the system, so all they would do would be to use up what must be stretched resources for the benefit of a few extra months of our money. Given they seem to be allowing themselves 20 months to get this done, which is already up 2 months from the originally touted 18, then I can't see how we are a priority. They can save themselves a lot of bother just by waiting for FTT and issuing follower notices. There was over 1000 schemes in that list, and HMRC said they are going to go through all of them before issuing the numbers to see if they were going to pursue them. To me even just the very look of the way they issued them looked rushed, as someone said, it was practically a straight dump out of a database. I suspect they are stretched to their limits and they simply have to go after the safe options first.

Our one risk is that they likely see us a near certain win, so if they want to keep that 80% success rate, then we might be an attractive early on choice after the first round, but again, we may already be in court by that point. They also know that there is going to be a lot of bankruptcies, and that's going to be controversial. The moment they move on from issuing non-FTT APNs, they are on dangerous ground with risks to them as well as us.

That's my guess, but one thing HMRC has shown, they are very smart and they know how to get their job done in a way that will always tilt the battle towards them. If they thought they might lose, they'd settle. Now they are having risk forced on them, they are being made to take on fights that they would otherwise have avoided and their dirty tactics will be on display. They are bound to lose some maybe even many of the cases they take to FTT and then they won't even have a settlement, just ridicule in its place. In the longer term, tax revenues may even drop because of this.