No To Retro Tax – Campaign Against Section 58 Finance Act 2008

[DotasScandal]

I would not be surprised if they do a retrospective DOTAS!!!!

...And then apply an extra penalty for failing to disclose said DOTAS number (which they will have cast into existence magically) on your return...
Just for kicks...
And to kick you in the head just a bit more.
I can totally see that happening...

[DonkeyRhubarb]

I suspect a fair few schemes, like Montp's, were not registered with DOTAS.

Maybe they will be in the lucky 22,000.

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/reque...ncoming-532461

"The published figure of 43,000 refers to the estimated number of taxpayers who fit the criteria in the legislation - users of a DOTAS scheme, a GAAR case or a “Follower”. The remaining estimated 22,000 are those taxpayers who do not fit the criteria in the legislation."

[Oakleyacc]

Get professional advice - an IVA may be easier, dependent on your circumstances, even if there are no assets.
Dropping appeals against everything and going bankrupt is what many people will be forced into doing as then it only happens once.

What I have been led to believe is that HMRC wont accept an IVA unless they are outvoted by even bigger creditors you have ! An IVA lasts 5 years as opposed to an Income Payments Order from the Official Receiver which lasts for 3. Also for an IVA, there are very strict guidelines about what is acceptable expenditure during the 5 years. For example the upper limit of expenditure on food for a month is £220 and lunch at work £34 a month. I fear that would be very spartan living for 5 years. You would avoid bankruptcy but you're living hand to mouth for 5 years and that's only available assuming you can persuade HMRC to accept it.

The fact that they would go down the bankruptcy route rather than IVA makes me think that HMRC are more interested in making an example of people rather than getting the money. After all, over 5 years one would pay back more than over 3 !

[jbryce]

I would not be surprised if they do a retrospective DOTAS!!!!

...that's what the GAAR is for. I think.
If the GAAR decide that it was avoidance does that mean they can retrospectively apply APNs, FNs etc.?

[DonkeyRhubarb]

...that's what the GAAR is for. I think.
If the GAAR decide that it was avoidance does that mean they can retrospectively apply APNs, FNs etc.?

Yep, APNs for definite.

[flamel]

What I have been led to believe is that HMRC wont accept an IVA unless they are outvoted by even bigger creditors you have ! An IVA lasts 5 years as opposed to an Income Payments Order from the Official Receiver which lasts for 3. Also for an IVA, there are very strict guidelines about what is acceptable expenditure during the 5 years. For example the upper limit of expenditure on food for a month is £220 and lunch at work £34 a month. I fear that would be very spartan living for 5 years. You would avoid bankruptcy but you're living hand to mouth for 5 years and that's only available assuming you can persuade HMRC to accept it.

The fact that they would go down the bankruptcy route rather than IVA makes me think that HMRC are more interested in making an example of people rather than getting the money. After all, over 5 years one would pay back more than over 3 !

Personally I'm going for the bankruptcy route to get it over and done with but that might not be the same for everyone. HMRC are using this to make examples, not to raise money as their yield would be greater by having a tax amnesty and getting people to pay a percentage

[VictorValiant]

I'm in the same position. I'm in the process of closing down my limited company, - I stopped contracting in March. I intend to declare myself insolvent (I'm in Scotland), so as soon as I get a bill, I intend to drop my appeal so that I am liable for the entire amount. I have zero assets so it should be fairly straightforward. I intend to go to the Citizens Advice Bureau in the near future to talk through the logistics. I also intend to visit my bank to see what their position will be in terms of what banking facilities I can have going forward - I'm assuming overdraft facilities and credit cards will be withdrawn.

If I don't see a bill in the few months, I'm going to drop my appeal anyway and force the issue. One of the reasons for this is that it's my understanding that pensions are excluded from any insolvency/bankruptcy claims - mine are final salary anyway so quite difficult to unpick. However knowing how our friends the government operate it's only a matter of time before they change the law again to get their hands on this.

If anyone wants to message me with any ideas about this please do, I'm interested in other peoples' thoughts and I realise that it's not a subject for the open forum.

Henrik, In Scotland the IVA is replaced by the Protected Trust Deed - slightly different in several ways:
1) IVA is a 5 year solution; PTD is only 4 years
2) An IVA can be Joint but the PTD must be separate if partner/wife involved
3)Level of acceptance from creditors is different between IVA and PTD
4)In an IVA the equity in a house or car will be considered at the end of the IVA; in the PTD however this is normally considered at the start.

There are other differences as well - best check out Protected Trust Deeds on the web

[jbryce]

Yep, APNs for definite.

What a mess - I sense HMRC, the tax and insolvency courts and the GAAR are going to be very busy.

Unfortunately so will the Samaritans.

[Safe]

Henrik, In Scotland the IVA is replaced by the Protected Trust Deed - slightly different in several ways:
1) IVA is a 5 year solution; PTD is only 4 years
2) An IVA can be Joint but the PTD must be separate if partner/wife involved
3)Level of acceptance from creditors is different between IVA and PTD
4)In an IVA the equity in a house or car will be considered at the end of the IVA; in the PTD however this is normally considered at the start.

There are other differences as well - best check out Protected Trust Deeds on the web

This is very interesting that we are all planning to take actions but we never think about the scheme promoters and how we can/ plan to recover some of the money they took from us. They sold these schemes and I personally have all the document and they were very confident that the scheme will work. Anyone has thought what can be done in this regards? How we can recover some of the money we gave them? There should be a way i think.

[smalldog]

This is very interesting that we are all planning to take actions but we never think about the scheme promoters and how we can/ plan to recover some of the money they took from us. They sold these schemes and I personally have all the document and they were very confident that the scheme will work. Anyone has thought what can be done in this regards? How we can recover some of the money we gave them? There should be a way i think.

dont disagree, we should get the fees back IF we eventually lose and thats the Rub. We havent lost yet remember until its decided by the FTT, ECHR etc. For me its one battle at a time!