No To Retro Tax – Campaign Against Section 58 Finance Act 2008

[BrilloPad]

I don't think Gauke is a fool; I believe he is obeying orders from above, from George Osborne, who would by now no doubt sell his own Granny to rustle up a few more quid in his desperation to cut the deficit.

I was watching yes minster/yes prime minister on Dave last night. And I believe Gauke is acting under orders. But it is the orders of HMRC.

[Ninja]

An MP doing her job

Excerpt from yesterday's Hansard

Penny Mordaunt (Portsmouth North, Conservative)

“Today there has been much discussion about individuals’ and businesses’ tax obligations to the state for the benefit of one’s fellow citizens. We have not heard much about the state’s obligations towards our citizens and businesses with regard to tax collection, and I want to rectify that today. Paying tax, being compliant and paying a fair amount is a two-way street. It is morally right that we should pay our taxes; evasion and aggressive avoidance are wrong. But just as the Government have a moral duty to spend taxes wisely and get good value from our public services, so, too, HMRC has a moral obligation to the taxpayer to ensure that its requests are reasonable and fair...”

“…Governments must take responsibility for their mistakes too. The Minister will be aware that I have had correspondence with him on the principle of retrospective taxation. It obviously behoves the Government to close loopholes as they are revealed, or better still to anticipate and remove them during the legislative drafting process. Nevertheless, when a loophole has been found in legislation, it is not illegal for it to be exploited—possibly morally repugnant, but not illegal. When clause 55 of the 2008 Finance Bill was discussed in Public Bill Committee, the Minister voiced the Conservative Opposition’s concern about its retrospective nature. If it was wrong to legislate retrospectively in 2008, it cannot be right now. We must work to close tax avoidance loopholes, but we must consider whether it is morally justifiable to take retrospective action on tax avoidance in the case of relatively low earners who signed up to schemes that were advertised openly and publicly and of which the Government and HMRC were aware...”

Tax Avoidance and Evasion: 13 Sep 2012: House of Commons debates - TheyWorkForYou

[TalkingCheese]

Excerpt from yesterday's Hansard

Penny Mordaunt (Portsmouth North, Conservative)

“Today there has been much discussion about individuals’ and businesses’ tax obligations to the state for the benefit of one’s fellow citizens. We have not heard much about the state’s obligations towards our citizens and businesses with regard to tax collection, and I want to rectify that today. Paying tax, being compliant and paying a fair amount is a two-way street. It is morally right that we should pay our taxes; evasion and aggressive avoidance are wrong. But just as the Government have a moral duty to spend taxes wisely and get good value from our public services, so, too, HMRC has a moral obligation to the taxpayer to ensure that its requests are reasonable and fair...”

“…Governments must take responsibility for their mistakes too. The Minister will be aware that I have had correspondence with him on the principle of retrospective taxation. It obviously behoves the Government to close loopholes as they are revealed, or better still to anticipate and remove them during the legislative drafting process. Nevertheless, when a loophole has been found in legislation, it is not illegal for it to be exploited—possibly morally repugnant, but not illegal. When clause 55 of the 2008 Finance Bill was discussed in Public Bill Committee, the Minister voiced the Conservative Opposition’s concern about its retrospective nature. If it was wrong to legislate retrospectively in 2008, it cannot be right now. We must work to close tax avoidance loopholes, but we must consider whether it is morally justifiable to take retrospective action on tax avoidance in the case of relatively low earners who signed up to schemes that were advertised openly and publicly and of which the Government and HMRC were aware...”

Tax Avoidance and Evasion: 13 Sep 2012: House of Commons debates - TheyWorkForYou

I notice that Gauke completely avoided commenting on the above.

Another interesting and apt retro comment by Steven Baker, Wycombe Conservative...

"...My next point is about the rule of law and the general anti-avoidance rule. I initially ranted about that to the Attorney-General, and he related a case—I cannot recall which right now—indicating that there is a long-standing tradition of HMRC being able to interpret the law in a particular way in order to apply Parliament’s will. I am extremely sceptical of anything that allows the law to be applied retrospectively so that people cannot predict how their actions will be interpreted..."

[Boycie]

Finally an update from my MP after chasing. NTRT briefing pack plus a request to meet NTRT has been sent to Guake and they await his reply. Have updated Whitehouse

[reckless]

Well Done

Today I received a letter from my (Labour) MP, enclosing the latest House of Commons Notice of Questions. She has submitted three questions to the Chancellor of the Exchequor and has asked that he makes a statement on the matter.

I have had great support throughout from Anne, and, along with other ongoing developments, am much encouraged.

A good note to finish the week on.

[SantaClaus]

Today I received a letter from my (Labour) MP, enclosing the latest House of Commons Notice of Questions. She has submitted three questions to the Chancellor of the Exchequor and has asked that he makes a statement on the matter.

I have had great support throughout from Anne, and, along with other ongoing developments, am much encouraged.

A good note to finish the week on.

Great work Reckless. At least some of our MPs still have scruples.

[TalkingCheese]

Great work Reckless. At least some of our MPs still have scruples.

I second that. Nice one Reckless.

[the great escape]

Excerpt from yesterday's Hansard

Penny Mordaunt (Portsmouth North, Conservative)

“Today there has been much discussion about individuals’ and businesses’ tax obligations to the state for the benefit of one’s fellow citizens. We have not heard much about the state’s obligations towards our citizens and businesses with regard to tax collection, and I want to rectify that today. Paying tax, being compliant and paying a fair amount is a two-way street. It is morally right that we should pay our taxes; evasion and aggressive avoidance are wrong. But just as the Government have a moral duty to spend taxes wisely and get good value from our public services, so, too, HMRC has a moral obligation to the taxpayer to ensure that its requests are reasonable and fair...”

“…Governments must take responsibility for their mistakes too. The Minister will be aware that I have had correspondence with him on the principle of retrospective taxation. It obviously behoves the Government to close loopholes as they are revealed, or better still to anticipate and remove them during the legislative drafting process. Nevertheless, when a loophole has been found in legislation, it is not illegal for it to be exploited—possibly morally repugnant, but not illegal. When clause 55 of the 2008 Finance Bill was discussed in Public Bill Committee, the Minister voiced the Conservative Opposition’s concern about its retrospective nature. If it was wrong to legislate retrospectively in 2008, it cannot be right now. We must work to close tax avoidance loopholes, but we must consider whether it is morally justifiable to take retrospective action on tax avoidance in the case of relatively low earners who signed up to schemes that were advertised openly and publicly and of which the Government and HMRC were aware...”

Tax Avoidance and Evasion: 13 Sep 2012: House of Commons debates - TheyWorkForYou

Jezus H, that is right on the money. I may send her a xmas card.

All said and done, getting Millsy to stand up and get the NTRT argument on parliamentary record has really given us all a leg to stand on, down Westminister. To be read and used at will to fight Gauke and his barbaric HMRC horde. C'mon the pompey!

[Corrian]

Well Done

Today I received a letter from my (Labour) MP, enclosing the latest House of Commons Notice of Questions. She has submitted three questions to the Chancellor of the Exchequor and has asked that he makes a statement on the matter.

I have had great support throughout from Anne, and, along with other ongoing developments, am much encouraged.

A good note to finish the week on.

Thats great news, Anne's my MP too !

[silver_lining]

Refunds

Hi All,

I currently have a credit balance on my SA account and have requested a repayment online; however this was not forthcoming.

Before I engage with HMRC directly on the phone, can someone advise if HMRC are legally entitled to withhold refunds on credit balances given our situation?

Thanks in advance
SL