**termination with no notice - breach of contract**court case *help needed*

[NervousRexx]

Post #2 should have killed this one; somehow we are on #109.

Sorry #111

[KittyCat]

Some Sence here now

B2B contracts can and do have proper notice periods, so the client can plan for service ending and the supplier can plan team utilisation.
If we're going to pretend a contractor is a proper business, we need to stop all this "no rights" and "permie" and "IR35" talk.

Thank you - at last!! - a response with sense

[KittyCat]

If the agency are REFUSING to confirm/deny whether they were given payment in lieu of notice (your words, not mine), purely from a legal point of view, I'd wonder where your evidence is that the agency has taken any money from the client.

Semper necessitas probandi incumbit ei qui agit and all that.

That is another of my arguments - I DONT know! so they will have to prove in court that they did not receive notice or payment in lieu of notice to the JUDGE - & then it can be established if the process that took place was within th LAW!

[KittyCat]

OK, for those who haven't read the whole thread (and I recommend you do, it's a corker), here's what I think the OP has stated as fact relevant to the case:

• Contract has been terminated with immediate effect, a year ago
• Suing for breach of contract and unfair contract terms act (post 1)
• This is a business to business contract, which has not been honoured (post 11)
• Therefore, this is unethical (post 11)
• The contract states four weeks notice from agenos tcy to supplier (post 21)
• The contract states four weeks notice from supplier to agency (post 21)
• The contract states that the agency can terminate in consultation with the client (post 21)
• OP believes that the unfair contract terms act applies because they can consult with the client (post 24)
• The agency supplied their standard terms and conditions in advance (post 34)
• These were accepted by starting work
• The agency have not confirmed that they received money for the notice period (post 43)
• The agency have not denied that they received money for the notice period (post 43)
• The contract does not permit immediate termination for whatever reason (post 73)

Here's where I think there are problems with the case

• Just because something isn't ethical, it doesn't make it illegal
• The OP has no proof that the agency has taken any money owed to them
• Because there was a chance to negotiate the contract, and the OP didn't take it, Unfair Contract Terms Act is irrelevant
• I am astounded that there is no clause allowing for immediate termination in a standard agency contract

KittyCat, if the agency had said "here's your four weeks notice" and then told you not to turn up, would that have made the situation any better? It wouldn't have made any difference financially to you (apart from not spending time and effort for the past year on this case) - you would have had the notice period and had £0 because you did no work for this client in that time.

If you felt that the contract was unfair, why did you accept it? What has made the contract terms unfair (in a legal sense of the word rather that you just not thinking it's fair)? If you had received four weeks notice and no money from the client in that time, would the contract still be unfair?

Anyway, when the case comes up, please share the details - if you win then there is something that we can all learn here from your diligence, and if you lose then the amateur lawyers on the forum will at least have some precedent to quote. I'd also be interested in reading the court transcripts to see what evidence both parties put forward. If you don't want to state it publicly, then send me a PM.

I accepted the contract as there was the statement that if anything is illegal they will abide by the law. Also it was strongly notified to me of the notice period - from accepting the contract - it was a 6 month contact & I was there 4.5 months & received lots of praise when there - I was told by one of the directors of the agency that they are a buffer (I was the easy target to save a lot of necks) the director told me they are sick of it but they are held to ransom - their client is one of the big 5 retailers

[KittyCat]

Nice to see the regulars simply piling on the attack rather than trying to be a bit more constructive about this
Seriously, would it be so difficult to drop the "party line" for once and have a look at a different way of doing things.

KittyCat: What I'd like to know is... How much time (hours/days) have you spent on this and what is your expected return should you win, and what costs are you exposing yourself to should you lose.

20k roughly is my claim so far - I will not lose anything as if any costs are awarded against my company there will be no money in the company, I will make it very clear in court that if it goes against me there is no hope for small business & I'm done! It will be the judge's decision to prop up fat cat unethical & illegal practices & destroy a small business & they should look at the wider implications of how some agencies are gaining a competitive advantage by acting illegally ... whatever happens I will broadcast as I think it is important for small business

[KittyCat]

Yes indeed. Who's to say that the agency didn't get paid off for the 4 weeks notice by the client and they are withholding this?

"Just because something isn't ethical, it doesn't make it illegal" is absolutely right. What's "fair" or "ethical" has little to do with what's actually "legal".

KittyCat, try not to get into too much of a slanging match here but rest assured that we watch your case with great interest and would be very interested to see how it all turns out. Good luck.

It IS ILLEGAL to hold monies that are intended for someone else!! we are now getting into the accountancy of it - & IT IS ILLEGAL - if they were paid & have cooked their books they need to be investigated - by ALL bodies - laws have been broken

[NervousRexx]

Thank you - at last!! - a response with sense

So the posters who have advised caution and the pitfalls who probably have combined IT experience of 100-300 man years (and know a hell of a lot more than you or I) - you dismiss their opinion.

Maybe if you could summarise your case with a few 'bullet points', rather than write with terrible grammar and rant away, you may make more sense.

Please let me know when/where the case is and I'll book a day off as will be a good learning experience.

[KittyCat]

I haven’t read all the thread as some of Kitty’s posts are too difficult to make sense of (as mentioned by 1 poster e.g. no paragraphs). I’ve no idea on the legal side of things but others on here seem to be very knowledgeable in the area. Anyway before I start rambling on too, I advise Kitty to look at the future and try not to be blinkered as it’s easy to get into that mindset if you are set on something.

What about future interviews?

Interviewer: <usual stuff>
KC: <usual stuff>
...
...
...
...
Interviewer: So, Kitty was what the deal on contract X? What were your key achievements?
KC: Well, <usual stuff>, but it ended with me taking them to court...
Interviewer: <cough><cough> um, well, um, thanks for your time <cough><cough>. We’ll be in touch shortly...

Obviously, you can blag it or remove contract X from your CV. Personally for me, the stress wouldn’t be worth it. And have you written reference already secured from contract X?

LOL - I now work for one of the highest governing bodies to do with ethics & the law & believe me its a very busy place!

[NervousRexx]

LOL - I now work for one of the highest governing bodies to do with ethics & the law & believe me its a very busy place!

What point are you trying to make with this statement?

[KittyCat]

So the posters who have advised caution and the pitfalls who probably have combined IT experience of 100-300 man years (and know a hell of a lot more than you or I) - you dismiss their opinion.

Maybe if you could summarise your case with a few 'bullet points', rather than write with terrible grammar and rant away, you may make more sense.

Please let me know when/where the case is and I'll book a day off as will be a good learning experience.

I'm v. serious about this & dont want a feak show - no matter how many hundreds of years of experience in contracting - our law is based on case law - unethical practices result in laws being made - i.e. we know when something is wrong & we then try to stop it happening again .. on a more pressing note - the agency have submitted NO WITNESS STATEMENTS - I've asked again even tho the deadline for the disclosure list has passed.. surely if there are no witnesses I can apply that they have no defence? they stated in court there would be statements from 'one of the big 5 retailers' but nothing & nothing either from the recruitment consultant! should I apply for summary judgement?