BN66 - Court of Appeal and beyond

[DonkeyRhubarb]

If I understand DR correctly, the SC have merely(!!!) decided that s58 is compatible with A1P1.

I'm guessing it means that, in matters of taxation, the State is allowed to deprive persons of their lawfully obtained possessions by lying, deceiving, misinforming and practicing all manner of corruption. The State is entitled to do this so long as it hasn't broken any identifiable UK Law.

It is also entitled to needlessly & pointlessly fracture the lives of those such as Fog & Jeanvaljean, without so much as causing a ripple in the European Convention of Human Rights.

Or maybe I've misunderstood.

No, I think you've understood it perfectly.

[jeanvaljean]

Europe

I fervently hope that this does indeed go to Europe and trust that MP's counsel thinks the same.

My wife is a solicitor and she thinks it inconceivable that the ECHR would let this go.

A substantial part of the case of the baddies is built on fairness.

No-one, however, absolutely no-one, could possibly judge that the way we have been treated is fair - even those who think we should have paid a bit more tax.

There are also the many, many points which have been raised by various posters about retrospectivity, clarity and so on.

Whilst the UK may not be obliged to follow an ECHR ruling on tax or any other matter, they almost invariably do.

Losing at that stage would also let HMRC save face. They could show that they chased and beat the 'tax dodgers' in the highest courts in the land and only lost because of those 'interfering judges in Europe'.

Sure, my wife agreed to marry me but apart from that I have huge respect for her judgment and prowess in all things legal.

The European Court of Human Rights will uphold our Human Rights.

For the record I am a Scot and follow (follow) Rangers from afar - hope they get to Europe too - but have no faith in any supernatural forces whatsoever.

[Basher]

Way back when, I looked at the Castlemaine scheme, but I chose MTM as, like you, I thought it was safer as it was fully declared.

Genius

Like most people on this forum I only chose this scheme because it was fully disclosed and legal !! yes, LEGAL !! - and I had no intention of breaking the law.

I also now face a (still) yet to be determined bill which I will have no way of paying as I have little equity in my house and have little in the way of savings.

My wife is the only person I have told and she constantly asks me the same question "how can they possibly do this - and get away with it ?".

So, thanks to the HMRC time machine I now appear to be a criminal and facing the real prospect of bankruptcy.

Words fail me.

[Toocan]

Like most people on this forum I only chose this scheme because it was fully disclosed and legal !! yes, LEGAL !! - and I had no intention of breaking the law.

I also now face a (still) yet to be determined bill which I will have no way of paying as I have little equity in my house and have little in the way of savings.

My wife is the only person I have told and she constantly asks me the same question "how can they possibly do this - and get away with it ?".

So, thanks to the HMRC time machine I now appear to be a criminal and facing the real prospect of bankruptcy.

Words fail me.

That is ‘the thing’; we live in the cradle of democracy and yet we have been denied a fair trial by the mother of all Parliaments.

It is shameful.

[smalldog]

That is ‘the thing’; we live in the cradle of democracy and yet we have been denied a fair trial by the mother of all Parliaments.

It is shameful.

So far we have yes, but the fun begins now when the hr gloves come off at the tribunal stage

I for one don't think our case has yet been heard in a court

[futurecat]

Another example

Another example of where retrospective tax has not been applied...Am I right in thinking that a Tax Tribunal may provide us with some balance against HMRC?

Tax tribunal allows £17m avoidance scheme | Business | The Guardian

[bananarepublic]

Another example of where retrospective tax has not been applied...Am I right in thinking that a Tax Tribunal may provide us with some balance against HMRC?

Tax tribunal allows £17m avoidance scheme | Business | The Guardian

Alas no! The law change was not retrospective and the tribunal related to payments before the change.

The tribunal will apply the law so unless MP have a *really* cunning plan we are screwed. I suspect the most we can hope for is some mitigation on the NI front.

[nick4notax]

Could HMRC be persuaded to wait until ECHR rules ?

I fervently hope that this does indeed go to Europe and trust that MP's counsel thinks the same.

My wife is a solicitor and she thinks it inconceivable that the ECHR would let this go.

A substantial part of the case of the baddies is built on fairness.

No-one, however, absolutely no-one, could possibly judge that the way we have been treated is fair - even those who think we should have paid a bit more tax.

There are also the many, many points which have been raised by various posters about retrospectivity, clarity and so on.

Whilst the UK may not be obliged to follow an ECHR ruling on tax or any other matter, they almost invariably do.

Losing at that stage would also let HMRC save face. They could show that they chased and beat the 'tax dodgers' in the highest courts in the land and only lost because of those 'interfering judges in Europe'.

Sure, my wife agreed to marry me but apart from that I have huge respect for her judgment and prowess in all things legal.

The European Court of Human Rights will uphold our Human Rights.

For the record I am a Scot and follow (follow) Rangers from afar - hope they get to Europe too - but have no faith in any supernatural forces whatsoever.

So, the really big question is " what are the prospects for us getting HMRC to hold their dogs off until ECHR has ruled on our eventual case?? "
I realise many may speculate that they will not. The sceptical side of me tends to agree. On the other hand, you can only imagine the enormity of the claims for damages against HMRC in the event of ECHR slapping HMRC round the chops. If we're all still alive then, perhaps we could think up some collective lawsuit against them
Anyway, I agree we're best to wait for Mr.G and MP to provide us with their view on our next steps. MP have been pretty spot on wrt just about all of this so far, so I do not doubt them at all.

[GBHuhd]

Liability Calc

Hi Guys,

Apologies if this is already knocking about on the thread somewhere, but does any one have a rough idea (percentage wise) of how to work out what i could owe, based on the figures submitted in the tax returns ? I am going to presume that NI will be applied also, so would just like to get a rough idea on what my bill is likely to be so i can then go out and get drunk tonight and pretend i didn't know.

Cheers

[Leyther70]

Interest Mitigation

Does the ax Tribunal have any powers to mitigate on Interest?

is it possible they could say you lazy set of scheming bstards sat on your fat idle asses for 8 years before getting your time machine working and hence these poor laymen you have shafted whilst cosying upto Vodafone et all should not have to pay the interest during this period?

Is that a possibility? Im probably fortunate in that I can probably just about cover the tax portion but theres not a cat in hell chances of me covering 11+years interest, so unless they play ball on the interest the will just get a big fat GTF from me.