SJD just stuffed fees up by over 10%

[simondolan]

Hi Alf,

Thanks for giving me the chance to discuss this with you.

Having been in the contracting market since 1996 I've very much seen the ups and downs of the market, and of course had my business impacted each time the market takes a downturn, so I know how tough things have been out there for the last few years.

In terms of justifying the price, I'm not sure that anything I say won't be met by argument, but what I would say is that there are plenty of more expensive people out there (JSA, Brooksons, Plan IT to name a few), and of course there are people out there who are cheaper.

As a package I think we offer more than our competitors, and uniquely a dedicated local accountant who will meet you at an office close to you. We can't compete with on line only, call centre type operations on price. Say you live in London and your accountant is based in Blackpool - will you ever get to meet them? For some people of course this isn't important, but for me it is the premise on which my whole business has been built - I can't stand offshoring, call centre operations in any business I deal with, and we will never do it at SJD.

As has been picked up in previous posts, the fee increase (which will come into effect at different times for different clients depending on when their anniversary with us is), just about keeps up with inflation over the past 3 years

As ever, if there is anything you think we should be doing better, then please do drop me an email at the usual address - we do try very hard to give a truly outstanding service

Simon

I know you read this forum so I'd like to know how you are justifying putting up your fees by over 10% when most of us are suffering from either reduced rates or longer than normal periods between invoicable work?

Under normal circumstances I wouldn't think twice about retaining SJD as our company accountants but this attempt to just squeeze a bit more out of us is making me think again. It's not the amount so much as the principle. Sob stories about "we haven't put our fees up in three years' - well boo bloody hoo, most of us are earning less than we did three years ago.

Over to you.

[Old Greg]

Hi Alf,

Thanks for giving me the chance to discuss this with you.

Having been in the contracting market since 1996 I've very much seen the ups and downs of the market, and of course had my business impacted each time the market takes a downturn, so I know how tough things have been out there for the last few years.

In terms of justifying the price, I'm not sure that anything I say won't be met by argument, but what I would say is that there are plenty of more expensive people out there (JSA, Brooksons, Plan IT to name a few), and of course there are people out there who are cheaper.

As a package I think we offer more than our competitors, and uniquely a dedicated local accountant who will meet you at an office close to you. We can't compete with on line only, call centre type operations on price. Say you live in London and your accountant is based in Blackpool - will you ever get to meet them? For some people of course this isn't important, but for me it is the premise on which my whole business has been built - I can't stand offshoring, call centre operations in any business I deal with, and we will never do it at SJD.

As has been picked up in previous posts, the fee increase (which will come into effect at different times for different clients depending on when their anniversary with us is), just about keeps up with inflation over the past 3 years

As ever, if there is anything you think we should be doing better, then please do drop me an email at the usual address - we do try very hard to give a truly outstanding service

Thanks, Simon. You're not the cheapest and I have ummed and erred about moving, but I do very much appreciate the service that you offer (and am sticking with you). I don't know if it is widespread, but your Midlands team runs 'days out' around the region, and having a catch up with someone from the office make a special effort to meet me at 7:30 (!) a.m. just down the road from me was extremely helpful in helpng me tidy up a few tax related matters to my advantage.

OG

[Alf W]

Simon

Thanks for the response. I had feared that MarillionFan's attempt to start a fight with himself in an empty room had lost the plot of the original query.

For myself, I just don't see a value to me of the 'armchairs and cigars' service and I have no need of anyone to provide an additional Personal Tax Return service as well. I have been with SJD for a number of years and have never yet had the need to make a face to face visit as phone and email has always sorted any queries out efficiently and accurately.

What some of your competitors seem to be doing is realising this (by asking Contractors what they require) and offering a more 'knobbly veg' service that is lower cost but without some of the frills. This is what I'm after.

The irony is that had you not put up your fees I would have carried on signing up at the old rate without bothering to look at your competitors and without realising I was paying a premium. As there have now been a couple of these threads on here (the first I admit I missed) then I'm probably not the only one who is starting to think this way and looking at the market for these services.

Your people servicing your clients have been excellent over the years. I can't help feeling that the people who shape your client propositions have dropped the ball on this one though and have not reacted to a changing market.

All in my opinion of course. You are the one with the successful Accountancy Services company and not me.

[al_cam]

When did this happen? I've heard nothing about it yet from SJD?

If this is true then I shall almost certainly be changing accountant next month at my year end. Although I've no problems with their service they are doing less and less for me these days as I've become more self sufficient so I won't be wanting to pay more......

WMWS

If I can save myco the best part of a grand for maybe an hours work in switching to a no frills service or a local accountant, it's really a no brainer.
I check I am getting a decent deal with my car insurance, home insurance etc every year so why should this be any different?

but as Alf says, if they offered a service without personal return, VAT returns, payroll etc at a cheaper rate then I would take it.
How about it Simon? Surely largely "self sufficient" contractors are easy money?

Al

[gingerjedi]

Hi Alf,

Thanks for giving me the chance to discuss this with you.

Having been in the contracting market since 1996 I've very much seen the ups and downs of the market, and of course had my business impacted each time the market takes a downturn, so I know how tough things have been out there for the last few years.

In terms of justifying the price, I'm not sure that anything I say won't be met by argument, but what I would say is that there are plenty of more expensive people out there (JSA, Brooksons, Plan IT to name a few), and of course there are people out there who are cheaper.

As a package I think we offer more than our competitors, and uniquely a dedicated local accountant who will meet you at an office close to you. We can't compete with on line only, call centre type operations on price. Say you live in London and your accountant is based in Blackpool - will you ever get to meet them? For some people of course this isn't important, but for me it is the premise on which my whole business has been built - I can't stand offshoring, call centre operations in any business I deal with, and we will never do it at SJD.

As has been picked up in previous posts, the fee increase (which will come into effect at different times for different clients depending on when their anniversary with us is), just about keeps up with inflation over the past 3 years

As ever, if there is anything you think we should be doing better, then please do drop me an email at the usual address - we do try very hard to give a truly outstanding service

Is that a dig at your closest (and cheaper) rival?

[MarillionFan]

Is that a dig at your closest (and cheaper) rival?

As it happens(adding to the comments above). My first accountants were based in Ipswich, while I was based in the South. Never met them.

When I first started the model worked well. Send in receipts etc/VAT was done. All basic stuff. Paid £90 per month.

It was only when I wanted to do other things(Plan B) then the model didn't work.

So you could argue that the fact that someone will come and see you is a great benefit and a fantastic offering, but if you just want a vanilla service then go somewhere cheaper, but then please don't moan if at a later date when you want something more then that firm can't deliver.

Personally I would like to see a local accountancy firm you can use, lest that way you could get the best of both worlds.

[AtW]

Given massive inflation 10% isn't massive.

Alf W - you truly are a whiny loser: how much you charge for your services? Good accountants do important thing - give you peace of mind, if it's not worth a grand or two a year then you should not be running a company.

If you don't like it find another accountant or, better, start earning more - that's what your focus should be on: earning more to afford good accountant.

P.S. I am not with SJD and never was.

[SueEllen]

As a package I think we offer more than our competitors, and uniquely a dedicated local accountant who will meet you at an office close to you. We can't compete with on line only, call centre type operations on price. Say you live in London and your accountant is based in Blackpool - will you ever get to meet them? For some people of course this isn't important, but for me it is the premise on which my whole business has been built - I can't stand offshoring, call centre operations in any business I deal with, and we will never do it at SJD.

Sorry as someone who lives in London and has used and uses accountancy, legal and other services from people based all over England you don't need to make sly digs at other professions in your field to defend your case for increasing your fees.

The fact is professions in the UK charge what they think their customer base can stand, and also if they think they need an office in a particular part of the country due to getting a large amount of custom from an area they set one up.

[d000hg]

Sorry as someone who lives in London and has used and uses accountancy, legal and other services from people based all over England you don't need to make sly digs at other professions in your field to defend your case for increasing your fees.

It's not a sly dig to say that you cost more because you provide more. As MF says, for a bog-standard contractor it's basically cookie-cutter work for the accountant and you can argue a cheap, no-frills, remote service is quite adequate... in fact you could even use an overseas company if they knew their stuff. But if you want to be able to meet your accountant to discuss more complex things, or simply because you're a face-to-face kind of guy/gal who isn't comfortable dealing with someone via email alone, then paying more for this isn't robbery.

PS: I have no idea IF SJD in particular actually offer significantly more, I'm speaking generally. But regardless to cry over a 10% increase in 3 years (2.15% per year) is really petty. If you can't get your rate up, that's your problem. Nobody is going to coddle you when they also have a business to run.

[Nixon Williams]

Is that a dig at your closest (and cheaper) rival?

It would seem so! I will accept it as a backhanded compliment

Just in case there is any doubt from Simon's words, Nixon Williams does NOT have any off shore operations nor do we operate a call centre.

We stick to what we know, so we have never offered MSC or umbrella options, just a good accountancy service.

Approximately 60% of our clients are in the south east of England so I assume that our location is not important to them. We have looked at opening offices in other locations but we have never (so far) been convinced that our excellent service levels would be maintained.

I do not believe that the average profile of a SJD client is very different from an average Nixon Williams client and in my experience there is hardly any demand from clients to meet face to face. All clients are welcome to visit us, and many do, but the vast majority see no need for this.

Alan