Loans from EBTs and other Trusts

[pastalista]

From their site: As a Choice Premier employee you receive a monthly market rate salary that is subject to PAYE and National Insurance deductions.

Then: The amounts arising from the services that you provide are reviewed on a 6 weekly basis with the aim of identifying the appropriate allocations that may be loaned to you, as an employee. Choice Premier may then offer you a loan in a foreign currency.

So, my question is, are they then paying you much less than market rate in order to be able to offer you the loan in which case the opening statement is wrong or is your loan just going to be really small

Can't help feeling I have got to be missing something here

Most of these companies suggest that one pays oneself a "market rate" as salary, supposedly to deflect attention from Hector. The reality is that if one is using a scheme such as this then Hector is watching anyway. Therefore, one may as well pay oneself the bare minimum and take the maximum as a loan.

The forex loan thing has been looked at but not specifically attacked and beaten. I too would assume that it was caught by the catch all nature of the 09/12 announcement but no doubt all will become clear in April.

I can't imagine with all the flak flying at the moment that anyone would want to even think about glancing in the direction of somebody who might live next door to someone who knows a bloke in the pub who does these schemes but, hey, each to their own I guess.

Pastalista

[Waldorf]

I can't imagine with all the flak flying at the moment that anyone would want to even think about glancing in the direction of somebody who might live next door to someone who knows a bloke in the pub who does these schemes but, hey, each to their own I guess.

There will always be those that are stupid, naive or greedy (or perhaps all three!), these schemes rely on at least one of these attributes being present.

[TykeMerc]

There will always be those that are stupid, naive or greedy (or perhaps all three!), these schemes rely on at least one of these attributes being present.

Harsh, but not unreasonable these days at least.

Anyone who uses more esoteric forms of tax planning must know that the loopholes they're exploiting are subject to being clobbered as soon as they're noticed by HMRC and the buggers come up with a suitable knobbling technique.

[pastalista]

Harsh, but not unreasonable these days at least.

Anyone who uses more esoteric forms of tax planning must know that the loopholes they're exploiting are subject to being clobbered as soon as they're noticed by HMRC and the buggers come up with a suitable knobbling technique.

That's the problem though isn't it? Some of the "loopholes" are still open and will undoubtedly be exploited until, as you so beautifully put it they are "clobbered as soon as they're noticed by HMRC and the buggers come up with a suitable knobbling technique". Fabulous line!

The thing is though, whilst they are legal they will be available. The question is, should Hector be able to retrospectively clobber them? Under EU law, restrospective legislation is banned so it all comes down to this "aggressive avoidance" line that Hector likes to use. Until somebody challenges that approach by Hector in court and gets a judgement that says that there is no such thing, nobody is safe (at least nobody using anything other than limited or PAYE).

Whilst I think that using a scheme prior to the full legislation being published in April is risky, after it is published there will no doubt be a rush by scheme operators stating that they have the "latest approach" that has "QC clearance" and so on. People are bound to be attracted.

I personally believe it is harsh to judge somebody who uses schemes like these as "greedy" or "stupid". Clearly they have a bigger appetite for risk than some of our fraternity but I'm not sure it's more than that (I emphasise, just my personal view). I mean, I know people that regularly do 100mph on the motorway and I don't think they are stupid, just that their appetite for risk is bigger than some others'. And that actually IS illegal.

I despise the way that the IRS behaves in America. They can take all of your wordly goods just because they "think" you've done something wrong and then it is up to you to prove otherwise. Even if you prove them wrong, there's no compensation, no repayment of your defence fees, no apologies. And then you have to chase them to get your things back. Given that we tend to be about 15 years behind them in such things, how long before we get there ourselves? Hector should be challenged at every available opportunity. I've seen people on these boards talking about the morals of paying the "full" amount of tax. I think it is the moral duty of all of us to ensure that Hector behaves reasonably at all times and recent behaviour would tend to indicate that his behaviour is getting worse every day.

Good luck to all who have the risk appetite to run this way.

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

To quote Winston Churchill:

"We contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle" or, if you would rather go across the pond

Mark Twain: "The only difference between a tax man and a taxidermist is that the taxidermist leaves the skin"

[redkieran]

The only forex loan company that I've heard of that got in to trouble was Dignatio - but that is only because they messed up their company tax bill. I don't think that they were being investigated before that.

[TheBarCapBoyz]

Cascade

Some of the Barcap Lads have been with the Cascade EBT scheme in the past. Here is their latest offering, this email was sent out yesterday...

Good afternoon,

It was an important week for the structure last week as their tax advisors met with Queen’s Counsel to review and approve the plans for the new structure. The outcome was very positive and we now expect to be able to announce full details of the new structure early in February. We are ‘under orders’ from the Structure not to leak any details before everything is ready to go, but from what we have seen, the new structure will continue to provide you with the level of returns you are used to, in a robust and compliant manner.

The Structure continues to work with their advisors and Queen’s Counsel on the best way of dealing with loans caught by the anti-forestalling provisions of the new legislation, and while this is a tougher nut to crack, the feedback we have received continues to be positive. As soon as we receive final details we will be announcing those as well.

Once we have full details on the new structure we will be back in contact with you with an invite to come in for a meeting so we can explain how things will work for you going forward. In the meantime, thanks again for your patience and we look forward to continuing to work with you through 2011.

Anyone interested can go check their website at
Cascade Management Solutions Limited: Tax-Efficient Remuneration for Contractors, Consultants, Freelancers, Ltd Company Alternative - Cascade

[Emigre]

Some of the Barcap Lads have been with the Cascade EBT scheme in the past. Here is their latest offering, this email was sent out yesterday...

Just had a look at their website. They really couldn't say less about how it works if they tried. It appears that the contractor is employed, presumably on NMW. There is no description of how you get anything else or which part of HMRC they are upsetting.

But then QC4 is a blend of the previous 3 QCs! I didn't realise the legal profession had started moving so keenly towards compromise.

[pastalista]

QC "opinion"

Some of the Barcap Lads have been with the Cascade EBT scheme in the past. Here is their latest offering, this email was sent out yesterday...

Good afternoon,

It was an important week for the structure last week as their tax advisors met with Queen’s Counsel to review and approve the plans for the new structure. The outcome was very positive and we now expect to be able to announce full details of the new structure early in February. We are ‘under orders’ from the Structure not to leak any details before everything is ready to go, but from what we have seen, the new structure will continue to provide you with the level of returns you are used to, in a robust and compliant manner.

The Structure continues to work with their advisors and Queen’s Counsel on the best way of dealing with loans caught by the anti-forestalling provisions of the new legislation, and while this is a tougher nut to crack, the feedback we have received continues to be positive. As soon as we receive final details we will be announcing those as well.

Once we have full details on the new structure we will be back in contact with you with an invite to come in for a meeting so we can explain how things will work for you going forward. In the meantime, thanks again for your patience and we look forward to continuing to work with you through 2011.

Anyone interested can go check their website at
Cascade Management Solutions Limited: Tax-Efficient Remuneration for Contractors, Consultants, Freelancers, Ltd Company Alternative - Cascade

And there it is......"leading QC opinion". The problem is, again, "aggressive avoidance". Until that can be bottomed out and a judicial opinion be given on its status, I can't see that any of the schemes will be safe.

Pastalista

[amcdonald]

Anyone who says "going forward" has got to be tulip