Self Assessment Delays - who is responsible?

[prozak]

Hi all,

i recently tried to register for self assessment and get a UTR.

I did this by phone.

They are yet to send me anything back.

I have tried to register in the past and the same happened. They said they would send stuff but never did.

Am I liable for fines and interest (i don't think I owe any tax so this should be OK).

Or can i use this as a reason as to why i've not done my 09/10 and 10/11 returns?

Thanks.

[Clare@InTouch]

You're liable - their logic is that you've had since April 2010 to register, so the current delays cannot be the sole reason for non-submission.

[prozak]

I have tried to register in the past as well, with the same result.

I don't know whether it is because my salary is so low or what, but each time I've called they seem unconvinced that I need to register, even though I tell them I am a director of my own company.

[Old Greg]

Hi all,

i recently tried to register for self assessment and get a UTR.

I did this by phone.

They are yet to send me anything back.

I have tried to register in the past and the same happened. They said they would send stuff but never did.

Am I liable for fines and interest (i don't think I owe any tax so this should be OK).

Or can i use this as a reason as to why i've not done my 09/10 and 10/11 returns?

Thanks.

I am appealing (via my accountant) as it took me 18 months to get a UTR no. Simply because I got caught in a loop of 3 offices who each said that issuing it was the responsibility of another office, and they refused to acknowledge any letters and could never find them when I chased them up. Obviously they've not acknowledged my appeal letter but are now chasing me up for the fines.

[Clare@InTouch]

I have tried to register in the past as well, with the same result.

I don't know whether it is because my salary is so low or what, but each time I've called they seem unconvinced that I need to register, even though I tell them I am a director of my own company.

Have you sent in an SA1 form? HM Revenue & Customs: Introduction to Self Assessment

If you don't have a UTR you can still file a paper return, but you'd need to have done that by 31 October to avoid the £100 penalty.

If HMRC are refusing to issue a UTR you could send a paper return in now anyway, and then appeal against any penalty later. You'd be in a much stronger position to argue if you can show you not only did all you could to get a UTR but also filed before the online filing deadline (therefore indicating you'd have filed properly if you'd been able to).

Not filing at all just because of the UTR puts you in a weaker position.

[prozak]

Have you sent in an SA1 form? HM Revenue & Customs: Introduction to Self Assessment

If you don't have a UTR you can still file a paper return, but you'd need to have done that by 31 October to avoid the £100 penalty.

If HMRC are refusing to issue a UTR you could send a paper return in now anyway, and then appeal against any penalty later. You'd be in a much stronger position to argue if you can show you not only did all you could to get a UTR but also filed before the online filing deadline (therefore indicating you'd have filed properly if you'd been able to).

Not filing at all just because of the UTR puts you in a weaker position.

yeah fair enough...

Not even sure what the fines are?

Thought they were limited at the moment?

Don't think I owe tax so interest shouldn't come into it.

[Clare@InTouch]

yeah fair enough...

Not even sure what the fines are?

Thought they were limited at the moment?

Don't think I owe tax so interest shouldn't come into it.

You'll be fined £100 for not filing before the deadline of 31 January, regardless of whether any tax is due or not. Further penalties will kick in if you still don't file after this date.

If any tax is due then there will be interest and potentially surcharges to pay depending on when you actually pay the tax due.



If you don;t file on time there are some examples of what HMRC may consider as a reasonable excuse:

•documents being lost through theft, fire or flood that you can't replace in time
•life-threatening illness, eg a heart attack that prevents you dealing with your tax affairs
•the death of a partner shortly before the filing date - you may need to show that you'd taken steps to prepare the return before this happened
•industrial action by Royal Mail over a lengthy period of time
•issues with the online filing service, where no work-round was available - you'll need to provide the error message you received

HM Revenue & Customs: Tax return deadlines and penalties

[ASB]

You'll be fined £100 for not filing before the deadline of 31 January, regardless of whether any tax is due or not.

Is that already the case? I thought the changes didn't occur until October 2011.

Late tax returns
HMRC will still charge a penalty of £100 if your return is late – and you may still appeal against the penalty if you have a reasonable excuse.

At the moment the amount of this penalty is 'capped' for some customers, this means that the penalty can't be more than the amount of tax unpaid at 31 January. This 'capping' applies to tax returns for individuals, trust and registered pension schemes tax returns. It doesn't apply to late Partnership tax returns.

HM Revenue & Customs: Penalties for late filing of returns and late payment of tax and harmonisation interest

I agree this appears to contradict the guidance you posted from the IR website but the system used to be (and I though still was) you got charged the penalty, when you finally submitted the return the appeal against the penalty would succeed provided there was no tax unpaid.

[Clare@InTouch]

Is that already the case? I thought the changes didn't occur until October 2011.

HM Revenue & Customs: Penalties for late filing of returns and late payment of tax and harmonisation interest

I agree this appears to contradict the guidance you posted from the IR website but the system used to be (and I though still was) you got charged the penalty, when you finally submitted the return the appeal against the penalty would succeed provided there was no tax unpaid.

You may well be right, I hadn't seen that link. Interestingly it does say that the change is "expected to apply" for the 2010/11 tax returns, so still no definite answer!

[gingerjedi]

I enquired about this 12 months ago and it turns out I should have been filing an SA for the past 3 years, they just sent me the forms and I registered online.

Once I had completed all 3 they sent me a cheque for £400.