Newbie - Hays, Citi Group and IR-35

[Craig@Clarity]

When a contract is reviewed that is between the contractor's limited company and the agency, it's always based on the assumption that the lower contract mirrors the upper contract and also reflects the actual working relationship with the end client and what happens on a day to day basis on site. I would always suggest that a detailed review and assessment is made based on the working practices once the contract has started.

As I say, reviewing a contract that is direct with the end client is probably more important and to ensure that the clauses in there are genuine.

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

If we follow your opinion then, we shouldn't bother getting our contracts reviewed, wrt IR35.

I don't think anyone is saying that an IR35 review is a waste of time just that a review of a contract that does not acurately reflect your working practises is meaningless. If what is written on paper matches what happens in practise then an IR35 review is very useful.

[theroyale]

I'm sorry but a lot of the above discussion is pure theoretical BS. The primary question is: What can a contractor do, as he is starting off on a gig, with respect to IR35? Answer: Ensure that the contract is IR35 friendly.

This is what Springy needs to do right now.

I started with Hays three months ago, through the LTD route. Yes they do have differently-worded agreements for Umbrella and LTD (my Hays agent asked me which one I was on before producing the corresponding agreement for us to sign). Ask them for the LTD one, sign it, and then go to work on the Monday peacefully. The Hays LTD contract isn't ironclad on every one of the clauses but it is IR35-friendly enough.

In my experience worrying yourself too much about what is ultimately vaguely-worded legalese only wastes your time.

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

I'm sorry but a lot of the above discussion is pure theoretical BS. The primary question is: What can a contractor do, as he is starting off on a gig, with respect to IR35? Answer: Ensure that the contract is IR35 friendly.

This is what Springy needs to do right now.

I started with Hays three months ago, through the LTD route. Yes they do have differently-worded agreements for Umbrella and LTD (my Hays agent asked me which one I was on before producing the corresponding agreement for us to sign). Ask them for the LTD one, sign it, and then go to work on the Monday peacefully. The Hays LTD contract isn't ironclad on every one of the clauses but it is IR35-friendly enough.

In my experience worrying yourself too much about what is ultimately vaguely-worded legalese only wastes your time.

To a contractor just starting off I would say that the most important thing is to understand IR35. No-one is saying that you should get stressed about the minutiae but every new contractor needs to know that just having a piece of paper that says they are outside IR35 will not help in the advent of an investigation if they are actually inside.