Contract terminated help

[MarillionFan]

As NL said in another thread earlier. Been a lot of questions about this recently.

I did PM Sue Ellen & Cojak(copying in Admin) suggesting that maybe CUK puts together a selection of draft template letters but not sure if they got them. I don't really have the background for drafting them, but I've noticed SE really seems to have a grip on it.

NL? Opinion?

[northernladuk]

As NL said in another thread earlier. Been a lot of questions about this recently.

I did PM Sue Ellen & Cojak(copying in Admin) suggesting that maybe CUK puts together a selection of draft template letters but not sure if they got them. I don't really have the background for drafting them, but I've noticed SE really seems to have a grip on it.

NL? Opinion?

Dunno TBH. Not many responses to my post in the other area and each one seems slightly different to the other so not sure a standard letter would work but great idea. Isn't this something the PCG might have/should have covered off possibly? I was hoping from the responses my post got we could put together a definitive process that has worked rather than banding small claims and lawyer type ideas that may work but aren't always practical. Like a 7 steps to payment type thing but will have to wait for more info.

[MarillionFan]

Dunno TBH. Not many responses to my post in the other area and each one seems slightly different to the other so not sure a standard letter would work but great idea. Isn't this something the PCG might have/should have covered off possibly? I was hoping from the responses my post got we could put together a definitive process that has worked rather than banding small claims and lawyer type ideas that may work but aren't always practical. Like a 7 steps to payment type thing but will have to wait for more info.

7 Step process. I agree. Well there is a site(an ex CUK holiday site) - The ConsumerActionGroup. They provide templates/letters etc for claiming back bank charges/parking charges etc.

I have an opinion on that site, but that part if you needed it would be pretty useful.

[Muttley08]

If it helps, I'm in agreement that you should pursue the agency. If they and the client didn't have the same terms, that's their problem. It's a clear cut case.

That said, do what the OP said, and get it in writing if you can from the client that it was a 'no-work' thing rather than something they could say was poor work or disciplinary.

Had to sack a contractor a few years ago (basically was lazy, useless, and was taking the P with timesheets), had to bend over backwards to be clear on terms for terminating immediately. If they haven't been clear in the reason, I don't think a court would look favourably on any reason they'd come up with at all.

All my opinion, not professional legal advice, but I'd go after it, and good luck!

[nolly]

Can one recover cost of legal fees and recovery of a debt. ?

You can send them an invoice via recorded delivery and email for the 5 days giving them 30 days to pay.

Followed by a "Letter Before Action" when the invoice is overdue giving them another 21 days to pay up before you take them to the small claims court and charging them for all costs and interest.

However as this is a hassle I would just find another contract asap.

I'm not sure you can charge fees other than 8% plus base rate though its still worth trying I am not sure on this as I read it online. So what the statutory rules allowed in one hand they stopped with the other.

[diesel]

Interesting so far. Client/agency posted me a letter stating contract terminated on basis of "emergency" which is part of a termination clause as in my earlier post. They (client) refuse to date to provide further detail what is the emergency, which led to my contract being terminated. Funily i heard of similar story with another chap being terminated before i joined this client!

Well took some contract legal advice...and they suggested i write letter back for further information on the basis of "emergency" and threaten them with small claims court. Adviser suggested that unless my company is insolvent or bankrupt (which is not case) or i have done nothing of serious misconduct at client office, they have no reason for emergency termination. Even if I did something not correct they should have made me aware formally or a formal meeting/notice before temrinating contract - which never happended. This legal chap recommend i use moneyclaim.gov.uk for a small claims court claim, which he thinks should be straight forward and any district Judge will ask client/agency what is the "emergency" and what steps were taken to notify contractor before termination i.e. is there an audit trail or traceable communication? (erm no)

I welcome your views on this, as i notice some forum members say well its part of contracting risk; others saying there can be nothing done. Any suggestions/help/advice welcome.

Lesson to learn: Always check your termination agreement and double check you are happy with the wording. if not change it or walk away or work with an "gun" to your head week to week

[SueEllen]

Interesting so far. Client/agency posted me a letter stating contract terminated on basis of "emergency" which is part of a termination clause as in my earlier post. They (client) refuse to date to provide further detail what is the emergency, which led to my contract being terminated. Funily i heard of similar story with another chap being terminated before i joined this client!

Well took some contract legal advice...and they suggested i write letter back for further information on the basis of "emergency" and threaten them with small claims court.

Adviser suggested that unless my company is insolvent or bankrupt (which is not case) or i have done nothing of serious misconduct at client office, they have no reason for emergency termination. Even if I did something not correct they should have made me aware in form or a formal meeting/notice before temrinating contract - which never happended. This legal chap recommend i use
moneyclaim.gov.uk for a small claims court claim, which he thinks should be straight forward and any district Judge will ask client/agency what is the "emergency" and what steps were taken to notify contractor before termination.

I welcome your views on this, as i notice some forum members say well its part of contracting risk; others saying there can be nothing done. Any suggestions/help/advice welcome.

Just got back to this board.

Yes must ask the client what the emergency is and ask for the reply in writing within 7 days, repeat the demand for payment and enclose an invoice, state a time limit for them to pay the invoice by and then state you will take them court if they don't pay up. Send all letters via recorded delivery

Follow it up with a final 7 day "Letter before action" after the time limit to pay up has passed.

The reason people say don't bother chasing it's a lot of hassle and it doesn't guarantee they will pay up. Plus many people use the phone to discuss things and forget to follow it up in writing which means they don't have proof of what was said.

However lots of people and companies will pay up once they get court papers. Hence I've never had to take anyone actually to court because of this.

You also have to be on the ball and make sure you send your letters in the right time and ensure in each letter you make it very clear what you are claiming for with costings if possible. So you need to make it clear you are claiming court costs, interest, the outstanding invoice amount and any statutory late payment fees (if applicable). If you don't then you can't claim them later.

You also need to ensure you can prove that they will have got the letters and that you acted reasonably. So you need to send them more than one letter asking politely for payment.

If they do pay up before you go to court you are out of pocket for the postage, court fees etc.

[VectraMan]

The "emergency" thing is clearly an attempt to get you to back down. They wouldn't be using that clause if they had any other reason for not giving you notice - i.e. they're all but admitting that they should have given you notice, and they can't just throw around a word like "emergency" without justification. The client's office burning down, maybe, but not this.

The "only get paid for when you work" argument is always a bit of a grey area, but I think if your contract or schedule says "37.5 hours per week" and says 1 weeks notice, then any reasonable interpretation would be that they have to either let you work the normal hours, or pay you for the normal hours.

I'm actually in a not too-dissimilar situation, in that my agent is 3 weeks behind on payments because they haven't received the extension contract from the client. I'm starting to wonder if the client is going to try to get out of the deal by not signing the contract, leaving me no choice but to sue the agent for the now 5 weeks of work I've done. I doubt that's the case as I have a good relationship with both, but it's annoying.

BTW I used Lovetts before, and they were excellent - did the debt collection letter and calculated all the interest etc., but there are several similar people. And if you get as far as the CCJ you can recover roughly 2/3rds of the costs.

[SueEllen]

I'm not sure you can charge fees other than 8% plus base rate though its still worth trying I am not sure on this as I read it online. So what the statutory rules allowed in one hand they stopped with the other.

There is a fee you can charge them for late payment of the invoice plus the interest. - Late Payment Legislation and the BPPG Interest Calculator.

You basically need to claim for everything you can think off. The judge may tell you "No you can't claim for that" but if you don't put it in your initial claim you can't claim it later.

[diesel]

Just got back to this board.

Yes must ask the client what the emergency is and ask for the reply in writing within 7 days, repeat the demand for payment and enclose an invoice, state a time limit for them to pay the invoice by and then state you will take them court if they don't pay up. Send all letters via recorded delivery

Follow it up with a final 7 day "Letter before action" after the time limit to pay up has passed.

The reason people say don't bother chasing it's a lot of hassle and it doesn't guarantee they will pay up. Plus many people use the phone to discuss things and forget to follow it up in writing which means they don't have proof of what was said.

However lots of people and companies will pay up once they get court papers. Hence I've never had to take anyone actually to court because of this.

You also have to be on the ball and make sure you send your letters in the right time and ensure in each letter you make it very clear what you are claiming for with costings if possible. So you need to make it clear you are claiming court costs, interest, the outstanding invoice amount and any statutory late payment fees (if applicable). If you don't then you can't claim them later.

You also need to ensure you can prove that they will have got the letters and that you acted reasonably. So you need to send them more than one letter asking politely for payment.

If they do pay up before you go to court you are out of pocket for the postage, court fees etc.

Sue, thanks for reply. Not all such letters have to be issued via recorded dleibvery. if email communication is already in use between discussions it is acceptable to send a pdf letter via email. But is always preferable to send by at least 2 means i.e. email/post or email/fax to show you have made effort to get letter across. The problem with this agent this agent they work on self billing with client and ignore all invoices. But its a good point to send an invoice may stating "Do not ignore".

the legal adviser also stated the same, as soon as they get court papers they will panic as they have no ground to stand on. But it would not suprise me if these cowboys make up some rubbish excuse to force me into emergency termination. When i was there last week everything seemed okay and i was chatting to the managers at coffee machine with no problems. This was a job i was actually making a lot of effort with including working some extra time each day!
right will get invoices issued to them again.