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Company is refusing to pay threatening legal action

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    Company is refusing to pay threatening legal action

    Some background on this first

    Emails sent and received before contract began at least getting the amount and payment terms agreed.

    A contract which had been promised (and emails exist as well for that email conversation) which never materialised and by then one is into the project 3 weeks and has to hope for the best. I have always been told that the employed has a stronger position if there is no contract.

    My point of view…

    Towards the final deadline - which was a deadline that company had given.
    I worked all the hours god sent 6.00am to 12pm most days plus weekends towards the end to keep in good relations and to try and finish the project on time. Unfortunately it was not possible in the end due to the moving goalposts and mis communication that blighted things from the start. Also hampering progress was missing content and assets that one guy was helping me do the week end before my holiday. I finally called time on my time input after all they had stopped paying me and it was Sunday morning saying I would work until 8pm that evening and what did they want me to focus on. Come 8 pm we had a conversation on the phone he began ranting how unfair I was being and so I had to hang up the phone. I needed the bank holiday Monday to prepare for my holiday and their content was still not ready.

    I had a holiday booked they knew about so I could not continue past the "deadline" a new contractor was drafted 2 days before I left so that some kind of handover time existed.

    I took my holiday which was often spoilt largely through worry about this work and the project - I was still under the impression that on my return they would need me to finish up perhaps.

    So the problem was mostly that they didn't get the budget right from the start and they consistently said there was no money for extra help. So I just rolled up my sleeves and got on with it hence the really long hours for extended periods.

    Also towards the end they stopped paying me (never really paid according to the 2 week from invoice date) and I remain a months work out of pocket.

    On holiday I finally got communication from unanswered emails (a favourite technique of theirs especially re the contract) saying that the new contractor had got his head round it and was making inroads would not need me again. This brought relief to know things we almost done.

    My invoices from previous work still had not been paid and due to the conversation I had I had a feeling I was being set up to get the most squeezed out of me with this end game and the other contractor being in the plan. I feel thoroughly manipulated and I feel that there should be some rules protecting me though I am working through a limited company.

    What about the 37.5 hour a week directive, I always had to sign that when I worked through an intermediary agency so should I have had that to sign too ? I worked mostly onsite with my own laptop.

    I also want to say that if they haven't paid for the code I wrote that I should have ownership until it is paid for in full no ?

    Their point of view
    An email finally arriving from the director claiming that due to my not hitting the deadline and costs incurred following my work they are talking to the lawyers as the reputation with their client was endangered..and that they will be getting back to me on that one.


    Well I am confidant that my work was professionally written and solid just unfinished due to it being a bigger project than it was initially and their poor management.

    I of course feel I should not be made to be the scapegoat for this but what is right and fair is not always the reality as one needs to prove things.

    I welcome your experiences helpful links etc on chasing up in the correct manner
    Can I sell my debt to the bailiffs?
    How much interest on unpaid invoices can I charge legally and can I pass fees on recuperation of debt onto this client.

    Thanks

    #2
    stay calm

    are the outstanding invoices past the payment terms?

    if yes, get a debt collection agency to chase them

    if no prepare to get a debt collection agency to chase them.

    learn the lesson and try to stop before the excrement and fan collide

    chill, look for a new gig.

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by ladyGaGa View Post
      [I]
      Can I sell my debt to the bailiffs?

      Thanks
      Go via a debt collection agency, last year, though another business of mine not a contract, I passed them a £12K debt, they paid me right away £9.5K. After 6 months of chasing I was happy to do it, and happy to pass massive hastle onto the f******* that never paid up.

      They think you'll go away by mentioning lawers and your liabiltiy. Don't. Chase them all the way. #

      Good luck old bean

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by ladyGaGa View Post
        they are talking to the lawyers
        Wait till the lawyers have finished telling them they haven't got a leg to stand on, then see what their line is.

        Comment


          #5
          Hi and welcome.

          Originally posted by ladyGaGa View Post
          A contract which had been promised never materialised. I have always been told that the employed has a stronger position if there is no contract.
          Tough call on if you were better/worse off without a contract. I probably wouldn't let it happen if I could possibly avoid it. How good was the job spec up front? If you can prove scope creep from the original spec then it might improve your case against their accusation that you failed to deliver.

          Originally posted by ladyGaGa View Post
          Also towards the end they stopped paying me (never really paid according to the 2 week from invoice date) and I remain a months work out of pocket. My invoices from previous work still had not been paid and due to the conversation I had I had a feeling I was being set up to get the most squeezed out of me with this end game and the other contractor being in the plan. I feel thoroughly manipulated and I feel that there should be some rules protecting me though I am working through a limited company.
          There are rules protecting your company (not you, remember) - they are called "contract law". These are the ones you will bring to bear on the client to get your money.

          Originally posted by ladyGaGa View Post
          What about the 37.5 hour a week directive, I always had to sign that when I worked through an intermediary agency so should I have had that to sign too ? I worked mostly onsite with my own laptop.
          This doesn't apply to company directors - they are free to work as hard as they like.

          Originally posted by ladyGaGa View Post
          I also want to say that if they haven't paid for the code I wrote that I should have ownership until it is paid for in full no ?
          I would agree with that. If they don't pay then they have no license to use the code, especially with no formal contract between you.

          Originally posted by ladyGaGa View Post
          Their point of view
          An email finally arriving from the director claiming that due to my not hitting the deadline and costs incurred following my work they are talking to the lawyers as the reputation with their client was endangered..and that they will be getting back to me on that one.
          "See you in court then, I will be counter claiming against you in due course". Two can play at that game.

          You are working through a limited company. Remember that the contract is between your LTD and the client. Any action taken will be in the name of your company, if your company loses then you can just cease trading and presuming your LTD doesn't hold a lot of non liquid assets (cars etc) they get nothing. They will know this full well.


          Originally posted by ladyGaGa View Post
          Well I am confidant that my work was professionally written and solid just unfinished due to it being a bigger project than it was initially and their poor management.
          Proving this in court might be more trouble than it's worth. It might take weeks to prepare a case in a dispute over a few weeks money. You are probably better off directing your energies elsewhere. That's not to stop you kicking off a court case against them with a claim for interest and penalties for late payments though!

          Originally posted by ladyGaGa View Post
          Can I sell my debt to the bailiffs?
          Absolutely. I don't know how much you would get considering the complexity of the dispute and the lack of a formal contract though....

          Originally posted by ladyGaGa View Post
          How much interest on unpaid invoices can I charge legally and can I pass fees on recuperation of debt onto this client.
          1. Invoice (stating payment terms) if you haven't done this already.
          2. Late Payment Legislation - interest and penalties are a statutory right
          3. Legal Action.


          Even if you don't get paid for the last couple of weeks, you should at least get statutory interest and penalties due from the late payments (or pass this on to the debt collectors).

          Don't forget, this is your company bringing the action not you personally.

          Good luck!
          Free advice and opinions - refunds are available if you are not 100% satisfied.

          Comment


            #6
            Don't bother taking them to court and ignore threats of lawyers.

            Lawyers acting for firms just tend to do what their clients tell them even if what they are doing or saying doesn't have much legal basis. It's just a way to intimidate you into backing down.

            Write a firm letter sent by recorded delivery stating that your company's invoices needed to be paid in full by 14 days (when they are over due) or you will take recovery action.

            Then get the debt collectors involved. They are much better at getting money out of companies then taking them to court as there ways companies can wiggle out of paying you plus going to court is longer process.

            I met a debt collector a few months ago and he said he is very busy due to lots of small businesses chasing debts. So don't worry it's now a very common problem for companies to try and wiggle out of paying other companies.
            "You’re just a bad memory who doesn’t know when to go away" JR

            Comment


              #7
              Thank you all so very much for your replies

              I will be using all of these tips and advice just to mention of the guy who said dont let it happen again (re the no contract) its really hard if they make the right noises you cant turn round and down tools until its done, well perhaps you can but you might find yourself out the door - on second thoughts I would have been better off so perhaps but you guys know what I mean. This company knew what game they are playing and at times maybe it works for them. We shall see.

              But once again thanks.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by ladyGaGa View Post
                I will be using all of these tips and advice just to mention of the guy who said dont let it happen again (re the no contract) its really hard if they make the right noises you cant turn round and down tools until its done, well perhaps you can but you might find yourself out the door - on second thoughts I would have been better off so perhaps but you guys know what I mean. This company knew what game they are playing and at times maybe it works for them. We shall see.

                But once again thanks.
                Please let us know how you get on. Best of luck.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by ladyGaGa View Post
                  .... you cant turn round and down tools until its done, well perhaps you can but you might find yourself out the door - on second thoughts I would have been better off so perhaps but you guys know what I mean...
                  it's a pivotal moment in a contract that has gone sour. at what point to down tools and walk away. the temptation is to hang on and wait a little longer; another day, another week.. another month.. each contract is different and there will always be exceptions but the best way is to keep it simple - the moment an invoice is overdue - it is time to be gone. don't work for free. let us know how it goes.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Any update OP?
                    What happens in General, stays in General.
                    You know what they say about assumptions!

                    Comment

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