Overnight subsistence when staying in local rented accomm

[Stag Cozier]

Matt - us debating this on here doesn't help you so I have emailed you directly to sort this out for you.

I like how someone from an umbrella can be giving advice on the phone to their client which is contradicted by an employee working for the same company on a forum. Not to mention naming a member by their first name on the forum. Good form!

On Matzie's OP, either claim the actual cost of your ingredients that you purchase whilst staying at your temporary workplace or claim the actual cost of your meal out whilst staying away. Don't claim for sandwiches, pack lunches or ready meals cooked or brought from home (not that anyone would).

On another note, a dispensation with an umbrella doesn't mean you can just claim the allowable amount that is in place e.g. if there is a dispensation with an umbrella of £5 per day that can be claimed, what that means is that you can claim up to £5 per day without providing the brolly with a receipt. You should still get a receipt for any expense you incur and claim the actual cost.

[matzie]

I like how someone from an umbrella can be giving advice on the phone to their client which is contradicted by an employee working for the same company on a forum. Not to mention naming a member by their first name on the forum. Good form!

I used my first name myself, so that's not an issue.

But for me the story here is that Parasol reps are in the forum, engaging in constructive dialogue and working out an answer. Every company sometimes has discrepancies between the parrot-fashion answers given by support staff who are often targetted on a certain number of calls or emails responded to per day, and the answer to questions that don't quite fit in the neat boxes and require a synthesis of information from multiple sources. I'm sure that Parasol will work this out, train their support staff appropriately, and generally get it sorted.

Thanks

Matt

[Brussels Slumdog]

Hi all

As of next week, I've found a room to rent a few minute's walk away. It's only available weekdays, so it's fine for the wholly/exclusively/necessarily stuff. It's a room to let in a private house, and only includes the room and incidental use of the bathroom and kitchen.

Matt

Make sure that the invoice includes the words " Room only" and excludes the use of the kitchen which would be easy to arrange if you are renting from a family who is also living in the house,

[BolshieBastard]

Hi all

I'm a first-time contractor, well inside of IR35, and rightly or wrongly, I'm with an umbrella for now.

For my first month, I've stayed with family a lot nearer to my temporary place of work than my permanent home, but still a *very* long commute away.

As of next week, I've found a room to rent a few minute's walk away. It's only available weekdays, so it's fine for the wholly/exclusively/necessarily stuff. It's a room to let in a private house, and only includes the room and incidental use of the bathroom and kitchen.

My understanding is that if I were staying in a hotel, overnight subsistence costs would be allowable, (in addition to overnight incidential expenses, and daytime subsistence expenses on the scale). pb]However, my umbrella say that since I'd be able to use the kitchen, I can't claim overnight subsistence costs in this case. [/b]

I've searched extensively but can't find any clear information about this situation. Does anyone have any information or advice for me please?

Thanks in advance,

Matt

And this is why you should just say 'No!' to brollies.

[Bob Jones]

As I said originally we eat in order to live not in order to work - that cannot be denied. On that basis food is simply not allowable in any manner, shape or form - the expense is dual purpose and is simply not allowable. However - HMRC do recoginise that, for example, if you are travelling along a motorway and need to eat you may have to call at a motorway service station and pay inflated prices - if you are staying away overnight you will have to eat and probably at an expense more than would otherwise have been the case.

Steve states

I agree and disagree with Bob. HMRC has set out their view in EIM31815.

I agree with Bob in that if food was prepare at HOME and taken to the temporary accommodation then HMRC would like to deny the relief. However, if the ingrediants were purchased at the temporary accommodation and a meal made then HMRC would allow the cost of the items purchased. The crux of the matter is the subsistence part of the overall cost of the business journey.

EIM 31815 makes it quite clear that the costs must be additional costs - it doesn't matter whether you are preparing meals at home and taking them to a temporary workplace or purchasing and preparing them at the temporary workplace. The crux of the matter has to be that there is an extra cost. There is an argument that the cost of self prepared food will vary from location to location but equally it varies within locations - there is simply no definitive answer - all we can be sure is that it is cheaper to eat in compared with the same meal at a restaurant.

Steve goes on to say

Bob I also agree that HMRC can not deny the level of expenses being incurred. By way of example, if I usually spend £5 per night eating at my normal home but I am away on business and decide simply to spend £3 on a starter and eat nothing else HMRC would not deny me the £3 claim even though it is less than the amount I would normally spend.

Yes they would.

Why can't we be sensible over this - we all have to eat otherwise we will waste away, become skin and bone and die. Why should the governement subsidise our need to eat? On the other hand if we are earning money and during working time we are away from our usual surroundings and, as a result, we have to spend more than would otherwise have been the case surely the government could help us with the extra expense - and they will - in fact they will do more because if you spend more they will give you the lot and not just the extra ..

We could go on for ever over this - eg an egg costs me 10p as I go straight to the farm - but it costs me 12p from the supermarket or I shop at Aldi when I am at home but the nearest supermarket when I am working is Waitrose ... for goodness sake we all have to eat ..


Bob

[Lea]

so how does it work if you were staying somewhere for say 6 weeks?

You move into a house share / lodging or room somewhere - and you have use of a kitchen - BUT you dont get all your coffee / tea / ketchup / salt / pepper / mayonaise etc supplied.

Can you claim for the duplicate purchase of all those items? (I am assuming you already have them at home)

Ta in advance (and sorry if it sounds thick)

Lea

[escapeUK]

I was with an umbrella, which was also Parasol.

Its so much easier to have your own company, charge vat, pay no national insurance. Then you make so much that who cares about the tax on £5 a day food.

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

so how does it work if you were staying somewhere for say 6 weeks?

You move into a house share / lodging or room somewhere - and you have use of a kitchen - BUT you dont get all your coffee / tea / ketchup / salt / pepper / mayonaise etc supplied.

Can you claim for the duplicate purchase of all those items? (I am assuming you already have them at home)

Ta in advance (and sorry if it sounds thick)

Lea

No unfortunately you can't. The reasoning is that although you have to purchase the ketchup you are using in your lodging room, the ketchup that you have at home is not being used and will be available to you when you return therefore you will not actually be consuming more ketchup than you would normally, therefore there is no additional cost and therefore the kethcup cannot be claimed as an expense.