Have they got me by the round-ones?

**ratewhore** · 5 December 2005, 17:42

Originally posted by Horby

Having realised I was poorly advised to go down the LTD company route with an umbrella service

eh? Am I missing something?

**Not So Wise** · 5 December 2005, 18:17

Originally posted by ratewhore

eh? Am I missing something?

Nope, the "umbrella" company sets up Ltd's and company bank accounts for each contractor and manages them for them, suspose "managed companies service" would be better term than umbrella but guess people have to go with what they call themselves

As to the original question, not really sure what you mean. Do you want to take over the Ltd? Or get a new one?

If take over, doubt it can be done without paying the umbrella, they probably kept some powers over it just to stop that

If you want to get a new one get yourself removed from the company just for safety precations (someone more clued up on the precedures can inform you how to that)

As to the question, are you tied to that company for any renewal? That really depends on the agency more than anyone (as no law stoping you from having multiple companys at the same time), if they are willing to change the company for it (see no reason why they should not) then go set up a new LTD and company Bank account

BTW why do you think you were poorly advised to go Ltd with a managed company? Know a few newbie contractors who have started using them, sure you could maybe squeeze a bit more cash out of something you manage and control 100% yourself (if you know what you are doing) and a normal accountant would be a bit cheaper but for your average newbie with no clue how to manage the paperwork they sound ideal.

**RSoles** · 5 December 2005, 19:00

Now that's interesting. I've just disposed of my 'managed limited company'.
Just about to set up my own Ltd. Co.

Was yours (Horby's) through a set of accountants? Does it have the accountants name plus a number in the Company title?

Were you a director of the company or was that one of the accountants?

You will need to resign from the old company to get a P45.

**Horby** · 5 December 2005, 20:26

OK...The managed service company setup the ltd company for me and basically charge me a fee for managing the pay and administration, expenses mileage etc.
No company bank account was created all funds are paid from them into my personal account. As I am infact the only employee of that company and a working director so I assumed I would need to resign in one way or the other?

I did not have to appoint any accountants as that is part of the managed service.

I am also concerned as I filled in forms with them to register for VAT and still have not received any confirmation\certificate some two and a half months later.

This is why I asked them how I go about folding the company but they are being as helpfull as always

**Commonwealth Contractors** · 5 December 2005, 21:04

Umbrella Companies

Hi

I work for an umbrella company and this is my advice.

One man ltd company- a company set up for payroll services of which you are the sole director and beneficiary

Umbrella co.- company that employs many people for the purposes of paying them tax efficiently

managed service company- the company that runs the above.

It sounds like you have a one man limited company which is run for you by a managed services company. If it was an umbrella company then
you would be an employee of a company with lots of people and you would not be a director of it.

You would need to check your contract with the managed services company itself but unless you have agreed to stay with them for a certain amount of time you should be able to leave when you like.

In your case, as a one man limited company, the money should be paid into your one man limited company account and not directly to you, unless you are in the umbrella structure.

If you are in a one man ltd company this is technically yours and you can take it with you though you may not want your service company being allowed to represent you to the inland revenue anymore so you should inform them of that and ask for all your company registration docs etc. If you still have a legal company you still have comitments to it so if you are not going to take it with you to another company then you should make sure it is closed down entirely.

I think that your service company may charge you a fee for the admin work and that would be reasonable buut they can't stop you doing it.

Hope that makes a bit of sense.

PS
Don't worry abut the VAT registration, it can take ages to come through, the inland revenue aren't always that prompt in sending things back.

**Horby** · 5 December 2005, 21:33

Thanks for that.

It's the closing down bit I need to know about as they are infering I don't need to do anything and there are no implications. From, what you advise I guess thats not the case. Is there a way I can close the company without their involvement? as they don't seem to want to do it.

**ratewhore** · 5 December 2005, 22:05

ahh - managed limited company - now I see...

**Commonwealth Contractors** · 6 December 2005, 11:37

Closing Down

The main thing that you want to make sure is that you are not a Director of the company anymore.

You could ask if you are the only director of your company or not. If you are not then you are in a composite limited company so you could just write a formal letter of resignation to your accountants and keep a copy. You are not expected to be an expert, they are!!!

You could check on companies house to try and search if you are a director and then send them a completed form 288b which you can download from their website under statutory forms to resign from your appointment.

Check out

http://www.companieshouse.gov.uk/

http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/d8...essCompanyInfo

**IR35 Avoider** · 6 December 2005, 12:07

This thread is confusing me; here's my attempt to list the possibilities for a contractor.

1. Sole-trader. There is no company. You get untaxed payments into your personal account from which you pay tax via self assesment. Usually not possible because client fears they will be taxed as your employer.
2. Umbrella company. You are an employee of a company which also employs lots of other contract workers. You receive a salary and possibly expenses and pension contributions. You are not a shareholder or director.
3. Composite company. Similar to umbrella except that there is a class of share for each worker enabling them to received some of the money they bring in as lower-taxed dividends instead of salary.
4. Limited company. You (possibly with your spouse) own all the shares in a company of which you are director. Your spouse or accountant might be the company secretary.
5. Managed Limited Company. Version of 4 in which the setup and administration of the company has been highly automated by the accountants. The accountants may be the directors.

Have they got me by the round-ones?