Horizon-Tec

[sal626]

HMRC have now opened queries into most of the EBT schemes. However, they have not progressed any of them much.

The scheme I was in, ASMG – have had some correspondence from HMRC. Earlier this year HMRC were banking on the Sempra metals case to give them a positive decision. They lost that case – and did not even bother to appeal. There are now two special commissioner ruling against HMRC on EBTs. ASMG have requested HMRC to close the enquiries now, or let them know how they mean to progress – but have heard zilch from HMRC.

[DonkeyRhubarb]

HMRC snowed under with enquiries

HMRC have now opened queries into most of the EBT schemes. However, they have not progressed any of them much.

HMRC's policy seems to be to open enquiries on anything and everything that involves tax avoidance. With the introduction of the disclosure regime, I bet they automatically open enquiries on every single tax return which contains a scheme reference number.

The consequence of this is that they are snowed under with investigations and it takes years for them to make any progress. I hate to think what their backlog of enquiries is like. Hopefully the following FOI request might tell us.

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/reques...s_open_under_c

This is one reason why HMRC must NOT be allowed to succeed with retrospective legislation like BN66, because it would give them an easy way out of the hole they've dug themselves into.

[Mark Duncan]

Horizon-Tec

Does anyone know what's happened to the Horizon people?

Greetings Pimpernell.

We at Horizon are alive and kicking and would be more than happy to go through any questions or worries you may have. Here is our URL: www.horizon-members.com, so please feel free to contact us on any of the numbers or e-mail addresses listed to discuss your concerns.

Look forward to hearing from you.

[pimpernell]

Greetings Pimpernell.

We at Horizon are alive and kicking and would be more than happy to go through any questions or worries you may have. Here is our URL: www.horizon-members.com, so please feel free to contact us on any of the numbers or e-mail addresses listed to discuss your concerns.

Look forward to hearing from you.

Oh. Hi Mark,

I've tried to call you twice but no answer. I could do with a chat - you'll recognise my voice, I'm sure.

Glad you saw the thread and answered.

Pimp(ernell)

[dezze]

Oh. Hi Mark,

I've tried to call you twice but no answer. I could do with a chat - you'll recognise my voice, I'm sure.

Glad you saw the thread and answered.

Pimp(ernell)

Was wondering if you got satisfactory answers from Horizon? I presume the fact they responded on this forum means they are up for helping you?

[pimpernell]

Was wondering if you got satisfactory answers from Horizon? I presume the fact they responded on this forum means they are up for helping you?

I sent them an email with a load of questions. They've received the email (I had acknowledgement) but they haven't answered the questions yet. Are you involved? If so, I'll let you know.

[pimpernell]

Liability

There seems to be quite a few people on this board affected by HMRCs new drive (one way or another). Putting MTM and BN66 aside, which I believe is only applicable to Double Taxation Treaty and partnerships, other so called 'tax avoidance' or 'tax planning' schemes that have been set up are obviously vulnerable.

I'm interested in (I suppose selfishly) my worse case scenario. Assuming (and I know it's an assumption) that HMRC realise in law that a lot of the schemes were set up to avoid paying NICs and Income Tax on UK resident received income via some sort of mechanism. I think the following is true:

• that they can claim 'back tax' and NICs back to 2nd December 2004 on monies received via the mechanism.
• They can apply interest at siomething like 8.5% a year presumably from 2/12/2004 to the point where they gain a legal ruling
• they can apply penalties over the complete period also.

Is the above true? Is 2/12/2004 as far back as HMRC can go (I've read that Dawn Primarolo stated this in Dec 2004 Finance Bill or some such thing)?

Any tax advisers/ knowledgeable people able to comment?

[DonkeyRhubarb]

Is the above true? Is 2/12/2004 as far back as HMRC can go (I've read that Dawn Primarolo stated this in Dec 2004 Finance Bill or some such thing)?

Any tax advisers/ knowledgeable people able to comment?

I'm not a tax advisor but (sadly) I have become knowledgeable.

The Dawn Primarolo date of 2004 may only come into play if they were to enact retrospective legislation. However, I think it's unlikely they will try retro again until the outcome of BN66 is known.

If HMRC were to take the scheme to court (Commissioners Tribunal, High Court etc.) and win, then you would be liable to tax & NIC on the monies you received through the scheme. They would also apply interest from the date the tax would have been due, see end of this post for estimates:
http://forums.contractoruk.com/877547-post1.html

In theory, it is also possible for them to impose penalties as well as interest, although they haven't done this with BN66 because the scheme was fully disclosed on our tax returns. I would ask Horizon about this.

Barring retrospective legislation, they've got to take you to court and win before they can claim a penny off you. Unfortunately, you might have to wait years to find out if they are going to take any action. I suspect this is a deliberate ploy to screw up people's lives.

[pimpernell]

I'm not a tax advisor but (sadly) I have become knowledgeable.

The Dawn Primarolo date of 2004 may only come into play if they were to enact retrospective legislation. However, I think it's unlikely they will try retro again until the outcome of BN66 is known.

If HMRC were to take the scheme to court (Commissioners Tribunal, High Court etc.) and win, then you would be liable to tax & NIC on the monies you received through the scheme. They would also apply interest from the date the tax would have been due, see end of this post for estimates:
http://forums.contractoruk.com/877547-post1.html

In theory, it is also possible for them to impose penalties as well as interest, although they haven't done this with BN66 because the scheme was fully disclosed on our tax returns. I would ask Horizon about this.

Barring retrospective legislation, they've got to take you to court and win before they can claim a penny off you. Unfortunately, you might have to wait years to find out if they are going to take any action. I suspect this is a deliberate ploy to screw up people's lives.

Hi DR,

Yes. I've read a lot of your posts, and can see you've been round the houses with this.

So to summarise what you just said, appreciating that you're not a tax adviser but have boned up on the issue:

if they go the full mile, win in court close the scheme, claim back tax etc, then they can claim tax, NIC,s interest and penalties.

But I can't get a definitive answer to whether 2/12/2004 is as far back as they can claim. (Maybe I'm asking too much since not a lot seems to be definitive at the moment). But that's how it seems to me.

So my nightmare scenario is that I get to pensionable age, am just about to sit back and relax and then HMRC come knocking about 12 years from now with a big bill, and my retirement plans go out the window. A way to avoid the interest is to but a CTD now, which seems to me to bypass how long any legislation may take to become law (the 12 years from now scenario).

Any thoughts?

[pimpernell]

DR - in response to an earlier question, the people I dealt with in Horizon were previously connected to Castlemaine.

Appreciate that BN66 will be a test case for retrospective legislation, and actually I think this is a particular circumstance (1987), and even if they win with MTM, wouldn't necessarily apply to other schemes.