Working in Germany

[BlightyBoy]

OK.

sarcasm

I know the 728 Jet went kaputt but I heard there was still something left ticking over? Maybe that was wrong then.

But you have still evaded the question. Are you still trying to say that you've just been raided for non-payment of taxes on a split income that you were receiving whilst working for Fairchild Dornier, a company that went out of business in 2002?

Tax Evasion is a serious Criminal offence

As it is in most countries

a Police State like Germany

I live in Germany and have access to British media. I would suggest that the UK is currently more of a police state than Germany. Admittedly the germans love "zee rools", but that by no means makes them a police state.

Have you ever actually even lived here??

[darmstadt]

Tax Evasion is a serious Criminal offence, what would you expect a Police State like Great Britain to do then? You Muppet.

fixed that for you

[BlightyBoy]

fixed that for you

I don't think there are many places you can go in Great Britain where you are not being filmed by CCTV.

[Edelweiss]

:But you have still evaded the question. Are you still trying to say that you've just been raided for non-payment of taxes on a split income that you were receiving whilst working for Fairchild Dornier, a company that went out of business in 2002?

I offered to send you definitive proof instead of messing around. So what's your email addy?

I meant that if you knew people in Aero that they would be aware of the raids. In 2006 and then again last year in Munich. Both Agents so well know I don't need to say who...

Maybe this is the reason it's never been reported, so you lot don't believe it. Like I said it's all a set up, it suits them to attract people to go there, then get a refund and wait for the next lot.

[BlightyBoy]

I offered to send you definitive proof instead of messing around. So what's your email addy?

You honestly don't think I would give out a personal e-mail address to a total stranger on this website do you??

I meant that if you knew people in Aero that they would be aware of the raids. In 2006 and then again last year in Munich.

Yes, I know people working in aerospace, and yes I have heard about raids being carried out in Bavaria. But you said:

You said you had some contacts at Dornier didn't you?
Check with them...

Both Agents so well know I don't need to say who...

When you say "agents" I am beginning to suspect you mean "MCs". There are a number of well-known management companies whose clients (i.e. contractors) have allegedly been raided and have already been named and shamed on related threads in this forum. So, don't be so vague, come right out and say it. If anything, anybody else reading this thread who is still with that agency/MC and is not aware of what is going on, then your posting would serve as a warning/heads up to those people.

Plus, if what you say is correct and the agencies have already been raided/are being investigated by the Finanzamt, then naming them here is not going to give anything away now, is it.

This last paragraph doesn't make any sense:

Maybe this is the reason it's never been reported, so you lot don't believe it. Like I said it's all a set up, it suits them to attract people to go there, then get a refund and wait for the next lot.

Maybe northerner is right and you are a troll....

[Edelweiss]

:Maybe northerner is right and you are a troll....

P+Z Engineering Gmbh was busted in 2006 and Garner CAD Technic GmbH was buster last year... Like you say no secrets, but they don't mention it in their "News" sections...

Your definition of a Troll seems to be someone that tells the truth and all you lot want to do is have a go. "False allegations" - I wish that was true!

[BlightyBoy]

P+Z Engineering Gmbh was busted in 2006 and Garner CAD Technic GmbH

Ok, now things are beginning to make sense, looking at the Garner website.

So, you work in aerospace but you're not in IT 'cause you are either a design, stress or mechanical engineer. Presumably you were working at the site in Oberpfaffenhofen (where Dornier used to be).

Were you a permanent employee of Garner, or a sub-contractor?

I suspect that you were a permie.. am I right? I am aware of companies that pay a split income for permanent employees whose "normal" place of work would be in the UK (Bournemouth perhaps??) and are essentially seconded to work at a different site. I suspect that they offered you some deal whereby you received a normal salary paid into a UK bank account and a "subsistence allowance" paid into a german bank account. You got busted, presumably, because the finanzamt became aware of this split method of payment. These additional payments were probably declared as subsistence to enable UK based employees (i.e. employees who's primary place of work was in the UK but are now working on secondment) to maintain a residence in Germany for the period of the secondment which is typically fixed; the idea being that, in theory at least, those employees would return to their "normal" jobs in the UK. Am I right so far?

Presuming I am, it seems to me that the finanzamt did not like this for the UK staff either because, a) legislation changed and it was no longer "legal" or b) you overstayed your 2-year limit in Germany after which the rules for subsistence are no longer valid (the finanzamt would argue that you were no longer elligible for the subsistence payments, but that the entire amount should be paid as a fully transparent salary on which full Sozialversicherung contributions and income tax payments were due).

You also stated, initially at least, that the germans were not touched. Well, this would hold true as your german colleauges would not have been receiving a subsistence allowance given that they were not, and could not have been, on secondment, (unless they were seconded from the Hamburg office). Any americans get busted too? I wager not as they would have been seconded from Seattle and therefore subject to US Federal tax law which would have meant that they would probably have had a different subsistence deal.

Your definition of a Troll seems to be someone that tells the truth and all you lot want to do is have a go

No, the definition of a troll is either someone who posts in order to provoke debate and/or argument, or in this case, someone who is fishing for information (it is not unheard of that dubious characters have used this forum as a means to try and solicit information regarding various financial arrangements of expatriated contractors).

Much of what you posted seemed to lack consistency and sufficient detail for readers to find it either credible or believable, and consequently some may understandably consider that you are/were a troll. Further, some of your posts were contradictory and this also leads to confusion and suspicion.

As for Garner, well, I would check your contract of employment. They are probably legally free and clear as there is probably a clause which you never read or didn't understand whereby you are responsible for ensuring that all taxes due on income is correctly and legally declared to the proper authorities.

[Edelweiss]

Ok, now things are beginning to make sense, looking at the Garner website.

I worked on multiple contracts in different locations and was always an Employee.
There was no mention of being under secondment.
I said the non-Brits (Except) Germans, were not targeted and the case was specifically worded against Brits. Germans have been under secondment for 10 years without a problem, FACT!
I heard Yanks were busted too but that is "Hearsay".
I'm not "Fishing" and I'm fully aware of all the payment options available.
There are no contradictions in anything I've posted.
No contract I had ever said that I was liable, or should report what I was paid by their system, in fact quite the opposite!

How come you know so much about this then?

I'm not a liar or German, but going from my experience, lying and being German seem to go together.

PS Notice Garner is now owned buy another company, I heard that was to pay off the fine...

[BlightyBoy]

There was no mention of being under secondment.

Then I don't understand under what guise the second half of the split payment could have been presented. If not as a subsistence payment during a period of secondment, then both yourself and your "employer" would have been fully illegal, not even "questionably legal".

I said the non-Brits (Except) Germans, were not targeted and the case was specifically worded against Brits. Germans have been under secondment for 10 years without a problem, FACT!

!!contradiction alert!!

So were you on secondment or not?? If the german employees were seconded to other sites, then this would probably explain why they weren't busted.

No contract I had ever said that I was liable, or should report what I was paid by their system, in fact quite the opposite!

Did you use this fact in your defence against the actions the finanzamt took against you?

How come you know so much about this then?

I would like to answer that by saying that my private e-mail address is total.b*stard@finanzamt.bayern.de, however the truth is that I have been contracting in germany for many years and have been made numerous "offers" of "tax efficient" solutions for contractor payments by various agencies, management and umbrella companies (normally recommended by the agency). However, none of them are really that tax efficient so long as one runs the risk of being investigated, fined and forced to pay the tax due on these "hidden" earnings in any event.

The only really truly "tax-efficient" way of receiving a "split" income is to split the income yourself between a current account and a savings account (both fully transparent with german banks) and to use the savings to cover tax liabilities, pre-payments etc. The only additional payments that would be incurred would be those due on interest earned on your "tax" savings. I religiously deposit 35% of each monthly invoice amount into a savings account to ensure that I have enough money to cover the quarterly pre-payments and the final tax assessment at the end of the following tax year (after I post my delarations). Due to my super-efficient and super-friendly tax accountant, I generally end up with a bill that is significantly less than the total of the 12 x 35% deposits I make during the year, and therefore there is a small slush fund building up quite nicely.

And I am fully compliant and legal with no fear of a negative investigation.

I'm not a liar or German, but going from my experience, lying and being German seem to go together.

Be very careful. This is essentially slandarous and I know many germans who are not liars. I understand you are angry but this ill-focused animosity is not going to win you any friends.

[Edelweiss]

Did you use this fact in your defence against the actions the finanzamt took against you?

Yes, but the buck stops with the Tax Payer, that was also confirmed to me by a German Lawyer...

Whatever deal the Agents made is not an issue to their "Employees" cases. That's the same at home as well, If you had untaxed income, at the very least you will be taxed + interest...

The case didn't come from the Finanzamt, it came from Steuerfahndung MUC, the tax office only asses and collects the right amount of tax...
But you already know that, right?