I got Back Stabbed by an Agent(!)... your help welcome

[Turion]

Shanti, You are the master of your own downfall. You let emotion get in the way of business. Next time learn to manage your business partners ie clients and agents in a business like manner and you will be ok. If they do not treat you likewise, walk away and save your pride.

Never get emotionally attached to a client or role, whether potential or real.

[shanti]

Responses...

Do you have any proof that you have been "rubbished" and "smack talked"?? It is likely that they said to the end client that you wanted unreasonable T&C's in the contract (Which in their opinion you probably did).

Its quite clear I was rubbished, when the agent is sending an email to me saying that the client has misgivings about "removing termination clauses" - when I have not asked them to be removed?? The agents are pissed because I have complained that their contracts are not REC compliant, or fair - and the rates should not have changed after the interview. I requested transparency in the contract terms to ensure they dovetail with what was signed up with the client.

If I was the end client I wouldn't be interested in an overly militant contractor who is liable to cause problems, I just want somebody who will come in and get the job done quickly. By kicking up a stink the end client may have formed an opinion of you on thier own without any input from the agency, I doubt the agency will bother trying to correct them if this has happened.

You could be right. And that a risk I have to run. The other choice is to do nothing. Most good organizations will listen to a legitimate grievance. If fact they would want to hear about a predatory recruitment practice by an agent that is not on its PSL.

As for references, you are by your own admission opted in so they legally have to take references and check your previous work history/qualifications. Trying to bust their balls over the conduct of employment agents act is not going to achieve anything but validate their insistence on you providing references and they will now almost certainly only offer you an IR35 caught contract.

It says in the agency contract - that I am volunteering to opt-out. I did not sign it as the rest of the terms of naff, such as I have to pay them 15 weeks of contract rates if I want to go direct...etc. Problem is, they suddenly demanded immediate references when the relationship went sour, and wanted verbal conversations only - not written. Quite obvious it was an attempt to have unaccountable conversations - and then report back whatever they want - thus opening the possibility of getting someone else in. Instead they scuppered the contract, by faking and twisting my contract concerns.

If you really want to take it further get a legal letter written to the agency demanding to see all communication between you and the end client under the freedom of information act, and highlight the fact that it is a criminal offence to delete this information rather than hand it over. Also send the same letter to the end client and make sure the information tallies. You can then waste lots of time and money trying to take them to court where they will delay as long as they can and it will cost you a fortune in lost earnings. You will also have a tough time proving libel (which is all you are going to be able to try and do from what you have written so far), if you have in fact been libelled.

The best thing to do in a situation like this would have been send a polite and quiet letter to the end client explaining why you were unable to take the contract, but now that you have kicked of and tried to "escalate it to them" they really aren't going to be interested. I doubt you will get an offer of a direct placement or the ability to go through another agency because they have undoubtedly signed some clause with the agent you are currently stuck with that will enable the agency to threaten legal action. Once that happens you are out of there, no end client is going to want the hassle of fighting off a potential law suit if they hire you. Sorry buddy but I think you have shot yourself in the foot.

I called up the manager last week, mentioned the issues. He just said to negotiate it out with the agent, and quote "stick to your guns". When the agency complained, he withdrew the contract? What the hell is that about? He is now not responding to the emails. If he is not willing to respond, I am not willing to stop trying to escalate. After speaking to HR, they did not sign up to exclusively to that agent.

The HR bod asked for the documented emails to be sent to them and a chronology of events. I guess she is just concerned about their butts being covered. I think I am going to put all the evidence together, send a polite letter in. I think HR has to be cc'ed, along with the IT director and possibly the CCO of the company.

As far as the agent is concerned, will sent an invoice for wasting my time/losing contract through misrepresentation. I guess other points of call are the DTI and possibly a complaint to the REC.

I guess back to sq. one if nothing comes of it.

[Jubber]

I called up the manager last week, mentioned the issues. He just said to negotiate it out with the agent, and quote "stick to your guns". When the agency complained, he withdrew the contract? What the hell is that about?

I would think he had a short list of people that he would offer the work to from various agencies after conducting interviews. A very common practice amongst hirers. You were maybe top of that list. Maybe not. When the negotiating got tough he just moved down the list and offered it to the next agency. Maybe the person above you on the list was negotiating even harder than you. That's why you were offered it.

You didn't sign a contract with anyone. I would move on. You haven't been contracting very long have you?

[downsouth]

sometimes I think your just better going with the flow, I take it you already have other work lined up or are you intending to fight this to the death?

Only one winner there I'm afraid, and it aint you unless you got bags of cash stored somewhere.

I'm on the bench at the mo and if the chance of work comes up I'll be grabbing it with both hands.

Wait til you've been on the bench for a while and you need to start work sharpish, you wont be too bothered about the technicalities of things

[shanti]

ta.. but

I would think he had a short list of people that he would offer the work to from various agencies after conducting interviews. A very common practice amongst hirers. You were maybe top of that list. Maybe not. When the negotiating got tough he just moved down the list and offered it to the next agency. Maybe the person above you on the list was negotiating even harder than you. That's why you were offered it.

You didn't sign a contract with anyone. I would move on. You haven't been contracting very long have you?

Possible. Surprised if they have the time to see multiple people from multiple agents. There was four from the agency that I worked through.

I guess, you think 'I' don't see IT contracting as a commodity market place for disposable people? I think it has increasingly become that.

The aim is to ensure that you don't get screwed over by middlemen agencies that will play contractors off against each other. The worker and the hirer relationship is what this is all based on. And when agencies try it on, you make a fuss and call people to account - specially when you nothing to lose.

..if not for yourself, for the next contractor that has to deal.

[shanti]

Wait til you've been on the bench for a while and you need to start work sharpish, you wont be too bothered about the technicalities of things

I've noticed some contractors are broke and cash strapped as opposed to really good at what they do and can thus command a premium.

[downsouth]

I've noticed some contractors are broke and cash strapped as opposed to really good at what they do and can thus command a premium.

No I think you'll find some contractors are really good at what they do and normally command a premium but due to events in certain sectors are seeing roles cut and rates cut.

Like everything in business if your too expensive you'll often price yourself out of work.

Better to be in work than out of it, I know what I'd rather be doing

[Another Dodgy Agent]

said lots of stuff

I really do understand where you are coming from however, oh boy where do we start.

Pt1 of your last posting: I have never heard of an agency not agreeing to compromise on contracts, reason is they would not want to lose the deal. I don't know your average rate or this particular agencies margin but on average my agency would be taking 12.5% - not to be sniffed at. Unless you wanted something along the lines of "my Ltd Co is absolved of any responsibility for this contract of works and the agency is wholly responsible should I come in and delete all the documentation of the project" etc. and I am sure you were not being unreasonable, then the agent should have agreed your changes.

Pt2 this company is not going to be interested in your grievance. They wanted to hire you for a piece of work, subsequently so many issues have been raised that any tangible benefit you could provide has become muddied and you have become a "hot potato".

Pt3 do you really intend going direct to the client? If you do then why don't you? Probably because they don't want the exposure provided by your Ltd Co against there corporate. Either way does it matter if the agent contract stipulates that you will have to pay them xx amount of monies if you are not going to go direct??

Regarding references, its not unusual to have to supply them. Do what everyone does, either HR or your previous agent. God knows how many references I have provided for my ex contractors in the last year alone - it is not a big deal.

Regarding "scuppering your deal" - agencies do not do this. Not when they have a deal going through, your willing to take the role, the client is willing to take you on...agencies do not earn money by pulling deals...trust me on this.

Pt4 final point. You've called the hiring manager, the agency and HR (who seem to be going by the numbers). Reading your comments in your last paragraph, I can see the same event happening over and over. The people involved are pulling away from you. The hiring manager is not interested, the agent is not interested, trust me HR will not be interested and the CCO, CIO, COO, CTO and CEO will not be interested.

This gig is "burnt" and I would advise calming down, getting perspective and walking away. Applying all your energies and skill to what is increasingly looking like a vendetta will not gain you a contract with this company. What it will do is give you a bad rep with any known companies, associates and professional's attached to this company.

TBH, do you really want to work for this company through this agency if it has been this much hassle???

Finally to cover your other recent posts, agencies don't need to play contractors off against one another, not when you are doing it all on your own already...food for thought my friend.

[Ardesco]

Its quite clear I was rubbished, when the agent is sending an email to me saying that the client has misgivings about "removing termination clauses" - when I have not asked them to be removed?? The agents are pissed because I have complained that their contracts are not REC compliant, or fair - and the rates should not have changed after the interview. I requested transparency in the contract terms to ensure they dovetail with what was signed up with the client.

Where does it state in law that contracts have to be fair? Look at the contracts for some loans and mortgages, they are blatantly unfair. you have a choice sign it and accept it or walk away. Pretty much like the choice you have here

You could be right. And that a risk I have to run. The other choice is to do nothing. Most good organizations will listen to a legitimate grievance. If fact they would want to hear about a predatory recruitment practice by an agent that is not on its PSL.

You are not a permie employed by them, they will pay your concerns lip service and then do feck all. Do you honestly think they are going to waste time and money investigating your complaints when they have no business relationship with you?

It says in the agency contract - that I am volunteering to opt-out. I did not sign it as the rest of the terms of naff, such as I have to pay them 15 weeks of contract rates if I want to go direct...etc. Problem is, they suddenly demanded immediate references when the relationship went sour, and wanted verbal conversations only - not written. Quite obvious it was an attempt to have unaccountable conversations - and then report back whatever they want - thus opening the possibility of getting someone else in. Instead they scuppered the contract, by faking and twisting my contract concerns.

Your point is? If you have not opted out and you have met the client you are opted in. You can say they only asked for references to be awkward but they will say it is because they have a legal obligation to do so to conform to legislation. Who do you think a judge will believe in court?

I called up the manager last week, mentioned the issues. He just said to negotiate it out with the agent, and quote "stick to your guns". When the agency complained, he withdrew the contract? What the hell is that about? He is now not responding to the emails. If he is not willing to respond, I am not willing to stop trying to escalate. After speaking to HR, they did not sign up to exclusively to that agent.

He most likely had somebody from HR wander over and have a word in his ear about an almighty stink that was being made by some contractor he wanted to hire and to not have any more contact with you as you were not going to be hired. If he is not responding it is a pretty good indication that they want nothing to do with it.

The HR bod asked for the documented emails to be sent to them and a chronology of events. I guess she is just concerned about their butts being covered. I think I am going to put all the evidence together, send a polite letter in. I think HR has to be cc'ed, along with the IT director and possibly the CCO of the company.

Oh course she did, they are making sure that nothing is going to come back to them. You keep digging the hole......

As far as the agent is concerned, will sent an invoice for wasting my time/losing contract through misrepresentation. I guess other points of call are the DTI and possibly a complaint to the REC.

I guess back to sq. one if nothing comes of it.

good luck seeing anything out of it, I suspect it will go straight into the bin.

Possible. Surprised if they have the time to see multiple people from multiple agents. There was four from the agency that I worked through.

Of course they did, the agency isn't even on their PSL. Do you really think the end client is going to only talk to one agency? Do you really think that a company with an HR department isn't capable of doing more than 4 interviews in a day? None of the clients I have worked for have sourced contractors from only one agency.

[shanti]

No I think you'll find some contractors are really good at what they do and normally command a premium but due to events in certain sectors are seeing roles cut and rates cut.

Like everything in business if your too expensive you'll often price yourself out of work.

Better to be in work than out of it, I know what I'd rather be doing

Well, the problem with this business, as opposed to selling widgets, if your widgets sales slowly reduce, you can call up the competition and see how much they are selling them for - and do market research... etc. There are some barriers to entry/exit which you can understand and work out. Also you are detached from the the sales, as opposed to thinking this is who you are - and this is your career - as in IT. Thus, the I.T. contracting game is pretty blind, you don't know where to pitch yourself and rely on the third parties to help or shaft you. How the hell are you supposed to know market rates? - depends on what others would take and how good they are - its a big gamble. You can put a lot of effort in courting a client at an interview - and not have any idea how you sit compared to others - very little control or visibility.