Agency wants to see VAT Certificate...

[Bluebird]

If a company isn't VAT registered, but charges VAT on an invoice, then it is that company who are breaking the law, not the company who paid the invoice.

Surely if you pay VAT to somebody who's giving you a duff VAT number, you can't then claim that back from HMRC ?

[Kylie4485]

Umbrella companies send their VAT certificate's as standard to all new agencies they work with (guessing it the same with LTD comp)

[VectraMan]

Surely if you pay VAT to somebody who's giving you a duff VAT number, you can't then claim that back from HMRC ?

They'd only find out if you were audited, and then it wouldn't be you comitting the fraud. I think you'd get to keep the VAT you reclaimed, and the other party would be in the tulip for not paying VAT.

I can't see why they need it either, but what's the big deal?

[scaramanga]

Surely if you pay VAT to somebody who's giving you a duff VAT number, you can't then claim that back from HMRC ?

Presumably at that point HMRC would commence proceedings against the company raising the invoice illegally.

Not sure to be honest, all I did was phoned up HMRC and asked pretty much word for word what the OP asked. I was told I was under no obligation to provide the agency with a copy of the certificate and putting the number on an invoice is sufficient.

[Kylie4485]

The answer I used to get, for them wanting copies of the certificates "we have an audit coming up in a couple of days, and we want everything to be in order"

[tim123]

I had the same request from my agency a couple of weeks ago. I phoned up HMRC to ask whether they had any right to ask for it and they said no, an invoice with a VAT number is sufficient.

If a company isn't VAT registered, but charges VAT on an invoice, then it is that company who are breaking the law, not the company who paid the invoice.

I had a pleb from the agency try to convince me otherwise but I told him where to go. He initially said they wouldn't pay any VAT until I send a copy of the certificate. I pointed out the legality of this on their part, quoting the call reference number Hector gave me when I called to ask whether they had any right to see the certificate.

I believe that Hector was wrong here.

The rules require the agency to check that you are registered and despite what hector said, having the number on the invoice is most definately not enough.

tim

[scaramanga]

I believe that Hector was wrong here.

The rules require the agency to check that you are registered and despite what hector said, having the number on the invoice is most definately not enough.

tim

A junior member of staff at HMRC making a mistake? Surely not...

Suggest the OP phones the VAT helpline and asks himself. Maybe he will get a completely different answer to me. If they get the same answer, the call reference can be quoted to the agency. The woman I got said I could pass this on and the agency could phone up to confirm. 0845 010 9000 is the number.

What rules are you referring to incidentally Tim? HMRCs? The agency?

[BrowneIssue]

The answer I used to get, for them wanting copies of the certificates "we have an audit coming up in a couple of days, and we want everything to be in order"

What I coincidence! I must have been dealing with the same agencies at the same time because I have been told exactly the same thing.

I was also told by one agency their fingers had been burned by a contractor who never registered for VAT but invoiced for it then scarpered back to Australia when rumbled. They wanted to see VAT certificates simply 'on principle'. Can't help but respect the honesty.

[Kylie4485]

What I coincidence! I must have been dealing with the same agencies at the same time because I have been told exactly the same thing.

I was also told by one agency their fingers had been burned by a contractor who never registered for VAT but invoiced for it then scarpered back to Australia when rumbled. They wanted to see VAT certificates simply 'on principle'. Can't help but respect the honesty.

Oh right, what Umbrella company are you working for? (Sorry I can't be bothered to go back through all of your 1560 posts to find out) from your user name I can make a wild guess who you are! But I wouldn't have thought that person would have dealt with admin duties such as sending VAT certificates.

[Ardesco]

I have doubled checked and all I have come up with is this:

19.7.1 General
You must keep all invoices for standard-rated, reduced-rated and zero-rated supplies that you receive for your business. They must be kept in such a way that, given the invoice date and the supplier’s name, they can be easily produced to us.
You cannot use an invoice which is marked “pro-forma” or “THIS IS NOT A TAX INVOICE” as evidence for reclaiming input tax (see paragraph 17.3).
Only a registered person can issue a VAT invoice. There are financial penalties for the unauthorised issue of VAT invoices. If you receive an invoice from an unregistered person and knowingly use it to reclaim VAT, you are committing an offence.
You should have no problem finding out from your suppliers whether they are registered. If you are in any doubt or you are unsure about the validity of a supplier’s VAT invoice, you should telephone our National Advice Service.
In your own interest, you should obtain and retain VAT invoices. Without them, you may not be able to reclaim VAT you have been charged.

I assume they are just hassling for a copy of your VAT invoice because it is easier than phoning up HMRC and they can then prove that they did not know that you were unregistered if it all goes wrong.


I can see why they do it, I would rather have a physical paper copy as evidence rather than some the word of some HMRC helldesk monkey.