For those in Belgium

**Rantor** · 10 May 2007, 12:05

Originally posted by The Lone Gunman

What are your thoughts on Limosa and its effect on employment status etc.

LG.

This is new and is meant to 'protect' foreign workers but it is more obstructive bureaucracy. The gov here is even less keen than ours on freelance bods and as for non-Belgians.....

In practice, it depends how you have set yourself up here. Generally, if you are going to be tax resident and/or stay over six months it is worth setting yourself up as an independent here (= self-employed but with a TVA number and in the BE system) but invoice via a management company. While this would raise eyebrows in the UK, it is the most common way for us guys to work here. It also means the limosa stuff does not apply as you are a local self-employed person. Major downside is the painful, grim process to get it set up (took me 10 months.)

Are you currently using your UK limited? If so, you ain't really meant to for more than six months as they can deem you (retrospectively) to be employed in BE rather than UK and apply full BE tax/ni - nasty but very rare. In fact, many British guys work through their ltd for way past the limit with no comeback but this limosa stuff may cause some probs with this approach.

If you are via an agency they might have to sort it out on your behalf?

For UK tax status I can't see how it would make any difference as they would ever know surely?

**Joe Black** · 10 May 2007, 13:38

http://forums.contractoruk.com/thread17059.html

Call me a cynic, but my gut instinct on this is that it has more than a hint of protectionism about it. Certainly given my experience with various other bits of Belgian legislation.

If you're here long term and set up locally, as Rantor suggests (along with all the fun that entails), then of course this doesn't concern you. If you're only here temporarily though then it seems like it covers just about every man and his dog with few exceptions as far as I can see.

What the effect will be I have no idea as this seems to have come into force with few people knowing about it. Certainly here (large multi-national) we have lot's of people coming over regularly and doing work and no-one seems to have even heard of it. A bit worrying when the act passed into law carries fines and a prison sentence which gets doubled on a second offence...

**The Lone Gunman** · 10 May 2007, 13:43

I am planning to be here less than 6 months so using my UK ltd.

If it goes longer I will do the self-emp thing.

My concern was that with my UK Ltd I would have to fill in the Limosa which clearly states I am the guy doing the work, therefore negating any substitution clause and therefore killing one of the IR35 bullets. I think some o fthe other questions are not IR35 friendly either.

I also wondered how Limosa stands up to the EU rule that: "any citizen of an EU stae can work in any EU state without hinderance". Member states are not allowed to make it more difficult for other EU citizens to work in their country than their own citizens. (does that make sense?)

**Joe Black** · 10 May 2007, 13:51

Originally posted by The Lone Gunman

I also wondered how Limosa stands up to the EU rule that: "any citizen of an EU state can work in any EU state without hinderance". Member states are not allowed to make it more difficult for other EU citizens to work in their country than their own citizens. (does that make sense?)

You have been reading some of mine and Rantor's posts on here haven't you LG?

**Rantor** · 10 May 2007, 14:02

Originally posted by The Lone Gunman

I am planning to be here less than 6 months so using my UK ltd.

If it goes longer I will do the self-emp thing.

My concern was that with my UK Ltd I would have to fill in the Limosa which clearly states I am the guy doing the work, therefore negating any substitution clause and therefore killing one of the IR35 bullets. I think some o fthe other questions are not IR35 friendly either.

I also wondered how Limosa stands up to the EU rule that: "any citizen of an EU stae can work in any EU state without hinderance". Member states are not allowed to make it more difficult for other EU citizens to work in their country than their own citizens. (does that make sense?)

For the first point, I still think that you need not ever declare it in the UK particularly if the end client has a contract with an agency - surely the limosa is with them?

Second point - welcome to eurocracy in practice! It seems to be the case that some countries sign up to all the eu stuff and then ignore it as they see fit. They are very, very, bad for it here and constantly try and put obstructions in the way, even after european court rulings made against them (right of residency my a**e!)

While a lot of people associate Brussels with the EU it means nowt to most of the locals who are only too happy to refer to people arriving from 10km away (in their own country) as economic migrants.

**Joe Black** · 10 May 2007, 19:30

As I mentioned on the other thread it would be nice to have a legal opinion on this (and a bit more publicity).

Belgium seems to have more or less put in law a piece of legislation which threatens possible fines and prison sentences for anyone who works here more than a few days, even if from another EU country, and hasn't registered in advance all the details of who they are, who they're working for, how long, how many hours per week and all the rest.

Reading the Dutch version of the actual law put in place, all I can say is that it doesn't seem very EU friendly...

https://www.socialsecurity.be/foreig...b_28122006.pdf
https://www.socialsecurity.be/foreig...r_28032007.pdf

Edit:

LG, as Rantor said I doubt any details of what you put on the form are going to be shared with any dep't in the UK. From what I read though it's quite possible they'll being doing the rounds here...

**The Lone Gunman** · 11 May 2007, 05:57

I think you may be underestimating HMRC. They will see what is going on in Belgium. If you tell them you are working there they will have you.

Don't worry, I understand most of this, I just raised it as I had not seen any other discussion on it and I know a few of us are in Belgium.

I would also like to see a legal opinion.

**Joe Black** · 11 May 2007, 06:44

Have you submitted an application LG?

**The Lone Gunman** · 11 May 2007, 08:19

Originally posted by Joe Black

Have you submitted an application LG?

No, I am planning to leave before I "have" to.

For those in Belgium