DIY SSAS (for P2P)

[stphnstevey]

I was looking for a pension that allows investment in Peer to Peer platforms

Greyfriars SIPP allows P2P investments, but they have now changed their T&C's and become too restrictive to practically use. There are other SIPP's but they only seem to allow investment in one platform

I became aware of a SSAS and these allowed investment in several P2P platforms. As I have a Ltd Company and it allowed the P2P investments I required, also other benefits, it seemed suitable.

I researched SSAS and became aware that you don't need a professional SSAS administrator to setup and administer. Potentially this could save me £1k/yr but more importantly, the choice of P2P platforms is not restricted by the Professional Administrator or likely to be further restricted in the future.

There is some admin involved, but I currently complete the vast majority of admin for my Ltd myself (VAT, PAYE etc) and it appears no more intensive than that

I was wondering if anyone else has experience in this area, setup and run a SSAS themselves?

I am NOT looking for help:
- that merely says - seek professional advice
- whether P2P is the correct investment vehicle to use

[northernladuk]

You could have a look at SIPPclub and chat to a guy called Brian Bennis. They appear to be all over SIPP investing, P2P and SSAS. They sent me a couple of mails and invited me to chat about it. I must admit I didn't go any further than that because IMO there are other investment vehicles that make the same and more without the risk not only of P2P but going off road in to non-mainstream stuff so I left it but that's getting to the 2nd point you don't want to discuss

Have a look around for EvolutionSIPP which I believe allows P2P but I thought it had a pretty high bar for acceptance.

Not much help I am afraid but might be a new line of inquiry for you.

EDIT : Oh.. Maybe not...

https://www.4thway.co.uk/news/catastrophe-p2p-pensions/

[Siz]

DIY SSAS

I was looking for a pension that allows investment in Peer to Peer platforms

Greyfriars SIPP allows P2P investments, but they have now changed their T&C's and become too restrictive to practically use. There are other SIPP's but they only seem to allow investment in one platform

I became aware of a SSAS and these allowed investment in several P2P platforms. As I have a Ltd Company and it allowed the P2P investments I required, also other benefits, it seemed suitable.

I researched SSAS and became aware that you don't need a professional SSAS administrator to setup and administer. Potentially this could save me £1k/yr but more importantly, the choice of P2P platforms is not restricted by the Professional Administrator or likely to be further restricted in the future.

There is some admin involved, but I currently complete the vast majority of admin for my Ltd myself (VAT, PAYE etc) and it appears no more intensive than that

I was wondering if anyone else has experience in this area, setup and run a SSAS themselves?

I am NOT looking for help:
- that merely says - seek professional advice
- whether P2P is the correct investment vehicle to use

Hi there.

I stumbled on your post. You may have already found out the answer to your question, but in case not:

I don't think that it is viable for an individual to set up and run their own SSAS without racking up professional fees to help run it. I was also looking for SIPPs that offer multiple P2P platforms at a reasonable cost. I considered the possibility of a DIY SSAS but rejected it as too difficult - and I ran a portfolio of SSASs professionally for many years.

There is no problem setting one up (if someone shows you what to do). But the ongoing administration is the problem. The difficulty is that it is such a niche area that finding practical information is very difficult. I just don't think that you will able to keep on top of the relevant legislative when it changes. And there are all sorts of pitfalls for the unwary.

Regards


Simon

[stphnstevey]

Hi there.

I stumbled on your post. You may have already found out the answer to your question, but in case not:

I don't think that it is viable for an individual to set up and run their own SSAS without racking up professional fees to help run it. I was also looking for SIPPs that offer multiple P2P platforms at a reasonable cost. I considered the possibility of a DIY SSAS but rejected it as too difficult - and I ran a portfolio of SSASs professionally for many years.

There is no problem setting one up (if someone shows you what to do). But the ongoing administration is the problem. The difficulty is that it is such a niche area that finding practical information is very difficult. I just don't think that you will able to keep on top of the relevant legislative when it changes. And there are all sorts of pitfalls for the unwary.

Regards


Simon

Thank you Simon and welcome to the forum

Your the exact type of person I was hoping to reply

I am plodding on down this route, mainly because I have invested a fair bit of time and I seem fairly close now!

I completed the application forms and received a 15 point request for more information from HMRC. Most of it basic stuff, but still taking time to reply to.

My other challenge has been in opening a bank account for the pension - I have been turned down by RBS and Metro Bank due to not having a professional adviser. They said to try my supplier of business banking, which I am currently trying

I understand your concerns and might live to regret this

Any further help you can give is appreciated, as you said, finding information is half the battle, so any decent websites with information is most welcome

Thanks

[IR35 Avoider]

Have you considered getting exposure to p2p via investment trusts? Then you could invest via any normal ISA or SIPP.

I am about to use the Funding Circle fund, as it seems to be the purest and most integrated, but there are a lot of funds in this sector.

I appreciate it's not exactly the same, in the the same way that holding shares in a REIT is not exactly the same as owning property, but if done carefully it should ultimately give similar returns to the underlying asset, though possibly with more volatility. (However a pension investment is long-term, volatility should not matter if you're not selling in the foreseeable future?)

Link to list of investment trusts in this sector:-

Find and compare investment companies | The AIC

[IR35 Avoider]

If not already familiar, you'd need to acquaint yourself with how investment trusts work, in particular understand the problems/opportunities caused by share price being at a premium/discount to NAV.

Funding Circle appear to intend to very actively intervene to control their share price, buying back shares when below NAV and reselling them or issuing new shares to stop price rising to far above NAV.

[minstrel]

ssaspractitioner.com

I did a lot of research on this including speaking to Brian Bennis at SIPPclub.

I eventually landed on ssaspractitioner.com and have investments in several of the P2P/Crowdfunding platforms with no problems.

Peter @ ssaspractitioner is very helpful.

[stphnstevey]

I did a lot of research on this including speaking to Brian Bennis at SIPPclub.

I eventually landed on ssaspractitioner.com and have investments in several of the P2P/Crowdfunding platforms with no problems.

Peter @ ssaspractitioner is very helpful.

Thank you for that, will definitely check it out

Are there any limitations on which P2P platforms you can invest in? Could you give examples of those allowed?

Thanks

[stphnstevey]

Have you considered getting exposure to p2p via investment trusts? Then you could invest via any normal ISA or SIPP.

I am about to use the Funding Circle fund, as it seems to be the purest and most integrated, but there are a lot of funds in this sector.

I appreciate it's not exactly the same, in the the same way that holding shares in a REIT is not exactly the same as owning property, but if done carefully it should ultimately give similar returns to the underlying asset, though possibly with more volatility. (However a pension investment is long-term, volatility should not matter if you're not selling in the foreseeable future?)

Link to list of investment trusts in this sector:-

Find and compare investment companies | The AIC

Thank you for this

I will consider this, either via a pension or ISA

Thanks

[minstrel]

Thank you for that, will definitely check it out

Are there any limitations on which P2P platforms you can invest in? Could you give examples of those allowed?

Thanks

I have SSAS investments with RateSetter, Crowdstacker, CrowdProperty, SavingStream, Seedrs and Crowdcube.

One of the aspects of the ssaspractitioner scheme that appealed to me was the fact that you are the sole Trustee of the SSAS. This means that legally you are responsible for ensuring the investments are allowable, but the flip side is you don't have a professional Trustee that needs to do costly due diligence on every investment.

Ssaspractitioner are there to help with the admin, keep up with the legislation and guide you on whether the investment is allowable. To me, this is the best of both worlds as you have the freedom and authority to invest in any allowable asset, but the backup of a professional with the experience to keep you legal.

In practice, this means you run the potential investment/platform past Peter to ensure it's allowable.

He's always "approved" all the investments I've wanted to make. The only investment where there was some discussion was a related party transaction where I wanted to move a personally owned commercial property into the SSAS. He (correctly) suggested that given it was a related party transaction I should get an independent valuation. I didn't want to spend hundreds of pounds on valuation, so I signed a waiver to acknowledge the risk HMRC might challenge the valuation, I'd chosen not to take the advice and wouldn't hold ssaspractitioner liable.