Inland Revenue have just told me i owe them

**Lucifer Box** · 31 October 2006, 08:57

See here: http://forums.contractoruk.com/thread11551-return.html

**tim123** · 31 October 2006, 10:15

Originally posted by sugsy

cash.

i havent recevied a self assessment form for 2 yrs and i have nothing to declare as i ensure i make a loss on my investments (property rental).

i want to know do you have to submit a self assessment form if i have no tax to pay ?

and now they have calculated it for me on past assessments and handed me a bill can i refuse to pay ?

You have to submit the form if they send you one. It seems unlikely that they will expect someone with a rental investment not to owe some tax, so you will have to submit the figures to show the loss. (How are you continually making a loss anyhow, what's the point of a loss making investment that can't be offset against profits elsewhere?)

If you have an assessment that you feel is wrong, then you have to appeal it. You can't simply "not pay".

tim

**Sockpuppet** · 31 October 2006, 10:19

Originally posted by sugsy

can i refuse to pay ?

Yes. Yes you can. They can put you in prison. Its like cause and effect.

**ASB** · 31 October 2006, 10:36

Originally posted by tim123

You have to submit the form if they send you one.

You also have a requirement to submit the form if one is required (e.g. any not fully taxed income).

However there is (or was, it may be changing or changed this year) a get out. The normnal penalty for failing to submit a self asessment fine is £100 and then it goes up to a shedload quite quickly.

However, if there was no tax owing then this could not legally be applied.

**Nixon Williams** · 31 October 2006, 11:47

All directors must complete a tax return each year, even if nothing is owed. You should be declaring your investment income, even if it is producing a loss.

Alan

**ASB** · 31 October 2006, 13:17

Originally posted by Nixon Williams

All directors must complete a tax return each year, even if nothing is owed. You should be declaring your investment income, even if it is producing a loss.

Alan

So is it now the case that the penalty for failing to submit is charged even if no tax is due? This is not what it currently says on the IR website.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/sa/penalties.htm

Reduction of fixed penalties

If - when the tax return comes in - the correct amount of tax payable at the due date is less than the fixed penalties, then the penalties will be reduced to the amount of the tax that is due.

Which supports my earlier assertion. i.e. although you may be legally obliged to submit failure to do so will not carry a penalty if no tax is due

[Edit: what I'm trying to find out is whether the link between limiting penalties to the amount of tax outstanding at the due date has been removed. I can't find any info on this but I know it was proposed]

**tim123** · 31 October 2006, 15:08

Originally posted by ASB

[Edit: what I'm trying to find out is whether the link between limiting penalties to the amount of tax outstanding at the due date has been removed. I can't find any info on this but I know it was proposed]

It is just a proposal. It can't come in before TY: 2007-8.

tim

**MarillionFan** · 31 October 2006, 19:21

I've taken to overpaying HM Customs and Inland Revenue these days, so they owe me and there are no mistakes.

**dmini** · 1 November 2006, 08:32

Originally posted by MarillionFan

I've taken to overpaying HM Customs and Inland Revenue these days, so they owe me and there are no mistakes.

I try and get the balance that way round too - its lovely asking them for money each year

Inland Revenue have just told me i owe them