Subsitence Claims

[ASB]

I guess my end aim is for these meals not to come out of my 'pay'. I know I'd potentially save tax if the company paid them as expenses, but that isn't my primary aim.

Well, they ARE going to come out of your pay. The only difference is whether they come out of your gross pay or your net pay. So, on your 30 quid a week your saving from being able to claim them is 6 quid (or 12 if 40% tax payer).

[SueEllen]

If you're staying away from home or out of the home for more than 12 hours a day (I think), you can legitimately claim a flat rate expense (subsistence?).

I think it used to be about £6 a day, might have increased to around a tenner?

Claiming meals when working away isnt normally allowed as you have to eat at home anyway.

1. Nope unless you have a dispensation.
2. You can claim if you are an employee of a limited company, meals that you normally eat at work if you are on a client site.
3. If you have somewhere with cooking facilities and are staying overnight in the UK then you cannot claim for those meals

So if you are living out of a suitcase in a hotel you can claim all your meals.

If you rent a room or are in a B&B with cooking facilities the only meal you can claim is lunch if you don't make a packed lunch.

If you are working at client side but are commuting from home then you can bring your own lunch in, including if you work shifts so shouldn't claim.

If however you end up being stuck somewhere and it's evening meal time then you can claim it.


Edited to add - tax rules mean my first 3 points are valid. However having worked for large consultancies as perm that's the general spirit of the rules.

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

Even if scale rates are applied there still has to be evidence of expenditure - if the OP is taking a packed lunch to work and cooking and eating breakfast and dinner at his rented accommodation he is not incurring any cost that he wouldn't be incurring if he was at home

[bertie78]

And for a positive outcome:-

Contractor Doctor: Can I claim for packed lunches or do I have to eat out?

The practitioner in question makes their case for how it may be claimable.

Thanks ASB - very nice article. I think the overall answer is probably, pay yourself the dividends to cover it. The idea of repaying yourself through expenses, is actually more a tax saving vehicle rather than making sure you're not out of pocket. Technically speaking, it's all your money, but where it get's taken from between client payment and pay/dividend only really affects overall tax you pay. I'm just looking to make sure my overall take home pay is what I planned it to be. OK - decision made - add it to dividends, forget expensing it, avoid HMRC like the plague!!!!!


Separate note - a whinge. TykeMerc - you're bang out of order. I asked for genuine advice from this forum as a noob to contracting, not your condescending and quite frankly bullish diatribe.

It's obvious you just want to hear the positive answers however.

Really?? I was under the obviously mistaken impression I was conversing with other members of this forum, not just blindly ignoring their contributions to bolster my own uninformed ideas. I'd quite like to see your evidence that I was doing as you suggested!!!!

That being said the arguments I've bolded are complete tripe, everywhere I've rented be it flats or house shares for more than the last decade have had perfectly adequate cooking facilities, I do grocery shopping and feed myself, just like at home.

Read it again. " I do not have access to my facilities at home, nor the contents of my family's weekly shop.". I have a home. I do not permanently live in flats etc around the country for business. I return home : "I stay in the area of my contract Mon-Thur" - OK, I didn't specifically say I returned home, but I'm pretty sure you can safely infer that from my original post. You decided to take a small part of a sentence and place it out of context - for what - so you could try and make me seem simple ... arrogant? Please enlighten me to the reason you decided to write that rather than provide me with guidance as I originally requested or seek clarification as I said people should.

... but since the arguments don't stand up to a cursory pass through CUK forums how do you think a cynical HMRC inspector whose sole aim in life is to catch you out is going to view them?

I don't believe I ever stated or implied I was providing arguments to bolster, argue or prove my case. Pretty sure I was just asking people's opinions so I could pursue the best course, using the information of other, more experienced contractors.

I'm normally pretty humble - I'll take people's opinions and views with good grace, especially when they have more experience than me. Just because a point of view is blunt, doesn't make it offensive. I cite NorthenLadUK - about as blunt as you can get, but still providing me with reading material, general observation etc. But quite frankly, you're replies were offensive and absolutely unconstructive. I'll end my rant with this - a favourite of my Dad - If you have nothing nice to say, don't say it all. Feel free to apply that to any of my future posts.

To everyone else who took the time to be helpful - I thank you ever so much and apologise for my outburst. I may be new to contracting, but I'm not some squib schoolboy who is going to take sh*t from bullies.

[bertie78]

Well, they ARE going to come out of your pay. The only difference is whether they come out of your gross pay or your net pay. So, on your 30 quid a week your saving from being able to claim them is 6 quid (or 12 if 40% tax payer).

See my previous reply. Agreed - it's just a matter of where in 'your pay' it comes from. I think I'll 'pay' the 6 tax to avoid the hassle this obviously incurs!!

[BolshieBastard]

1. Nope unless you have a dispensation.
2. You can claim if you are an employee of a limited company, meals that you normally eat at work if you are on a client site.
3. If you have somewhere with cooking facilities and are staying overnight in the UK then you cannot claim for those meals

So if you are living out of a suitcase in a hotel you can claim all your meals.

If you rent a room or are in a B&B with cooking facilities the only meal you can claim is lunch if you don't make a packed lunch.

If you are working at client side but are commuting from home then you can bring your own lunch in, including if you work shifts so shouldn't claim.

If however you end up being stuck somewhere and it's evening meal time then you can claim it.


Edited to add - tax rules mean my first 3 points are valid. However having worked for large consultancies as perm that's the general spirit of the rules.

Well you contradict yourself if you re read it.

For clarity, when I stay away, the accountant gives me a claimable expense for each night Im away from home or, am out of the home for 12 or more hours.

This is about £15pn now I think about the last time I claimed (about 12 months ago).

I call this 'subsistence,' HMRC may call it something else, I dont know.

Its a legit claim so please dont anyone say 'no you cannot.'

My understanding is you have to eat whether you are at home, working or working away and your normal meals arent claimable. I might be worng on that but it'll be a first if HMRC let you claim as an expense something you have to do every day whether you're working or not.

From what you say there, there are a number of different scenarios where you can claim or not claim. Obviously, only a tool would;

say they're staying in a B&B with cooking facilities, that you make a packed lunch and try to claim a meal allowance.

[bertie78]

Even if scale rates are applied there still has to be evidence of expenditure - if the OP is taking a packed lunch to work and cooking and eating breakfast and dinner at his rented accommodation he is not incurring any cost that he wouldn't be incurring if he was at home

I see where you're coming from Lisa. I guess I was having trouble wrapping my head around the fact whether I cook it or a restaurant cooks it, it's food that is being had in place of my 'dinner' at home. The fact that the food wasn't coming out of my 'standard' weekly food shopping and that the entirety of the food bill was to provide sustenance whilst away working. Coming from recently being a permie and obviously just being able to claim for this stuff, I have a slightly warped view on it. Totally different kettle of fish when you're private ltd.

[SandyD]

Eh? My LTD already pay these.

You pay house insurance from your Ltd?

[northernladuk]

You pay house insurance from your Ltd?

Yup. I need to live somewhere to be available for work therefore it is wholly and exclusively for the purpose of business. I don't take piss though as I don't put toothpaste through. Although I'd argue it's wholly and exclusive because no one in their right mind would speak to a client with smelly breath i do work from home some days so get some personal benefit.

[Danglekt]

Exactly, a fiver, FFS.

Do you know how many packets of super noodles that fiver could buy?