Advice needed urgently

[WordIsBond]

Take the VAT element off and everything else (minus whatever he paid his accountant) is salary. There's no CT owed. There's almost certainly no arguing min salary and divs as there's been no Self Assessments. It has to be all treated as deemed salary now IMHO.

Depends on if he filed dividend paperwork and RTI payroll, probably. HMRC will probably argue as you have, though, they'd rather see as many liabilities as possible be his, rather than the company's.

[psychocandy]

Hiding from your own accountant? i.e. someone who works for you?

Its like having a heart attack, then hiding behind the settee when the paramedic is knocking the door surely?

Although accountant, ultimately, wont give a rats arse - its not his debt.

[psychocandy]

OP - I have personal experience of family member doing exactly the same. Slightly different he was self-emlployed but the principle was there. Spent the lot down the pub then routinely chucked letters from HMRC in the bin.

Nobody could talk sense into him until HMRC threatened to send him to jail. Then he listened.

It did all get sorted in the end. They let him off LOADS. All the fines etc and more and gave him time to pay it back. I was a bit put out at the time because I thought hang on I've got to pay tax etc and you've been living the life of riley getting tanked down the pub every night and now you're getting away with it.

Anyway, all we get from him (its my brother BTW) now is how hard done by he is and how is he supposed to pay £200 a month back to HMRC and afford to live. Even though the cheeky sod still seems to manage to spend a fair bit in the boozer.

Even family members fall for it and seem to treat him with sympathy as if the big bad HMRC are picking on him.

Personally, even though hes my brother, it would have been funny to see him spend 7 days in jail or something - would have taught him a lesson. It was all deliberate with him - he knew he owed but thought they'd give up if he ignored them - they didnt.

[webberg]

With all due respect to the OP the guy at the centre of the storm here needs professional advice.

His company has evaded CT and VAT and NIC.

He may have evaded income tax and NIC.

If the company was liable to deduct tax from salary etc, and has not, then the recipient CAN be liable.

To determine this an accountant or tax adviser is crucial.

If he has no money or assets then he needs help to pay, then he needs an insolvency specialist.

If HMRC start to threaten COP9, CDF, etc then he needs a lawyer.

These are deep, dark and dangerous waters and to navigate them you need somebody with charts and a compass. Unless the OP has these skills, go and hire them.

The alternative is to throw him upon HMRC's tender mercies. Perhaps 10 years ago he might have got a reasonable deal. These days, probably not.

GET ADVICE. (preferably specialist - Google is your friend.)

[Jessica@WhiteFieldTax]

The problem here is the perp isn't just facing bankruptcy, but perhaps prison for tax evasion, right? .

Depends. The "look at how much I'm making and not paying tax" case runs a prosecution risk, the "head in the sand hate brown envelopes" case doesn't.

If COP9 or prosecution is being suggested then it's a different matter, but in cases like this the criminal standard for evasion is hard for HMRC to meet. Perversely it's the small tax credit frauds that tend to get prosecuted and custodial sentences.

Why doesn't every one do it? Ethics. Fear. Citizenship. Varies.

I'm no apology for OPs friend, but in reality it's a civil situation, probably bankruptcy. HMRC don't tend to prosecute or seek personal liability for corporate liabilities in such cases. And, yes, that comes from experience, including COP 9 and HMRC prosecution- when you've been to the Tax office with no name outside and armed guards on the door, you know you're dealing with HMRCs elite.

[BolshieBastard]

Wow! 2 grand a week and still skipped paying any tax liability and continues to shy away from their responsibilities.

Should be debarred from being a director of a limited and sent down for total evasion. IMO.

And the circumstances here seem strangely familiar to a similar post 'on behalf' of someone else! Maybe its the done thing?

[psychocandy]

Wow! 2 grand a week and still skipped paying any tax liability and continues to shy away from their responsibilities.

Should be debarred from being a director of a limited and sent down for total evasion. IMO.

And the circumstances here seem strangely familiar to a similar post 'on behalf' of someone else! Maybe its the done thing?

I agree. Take a look at one of the well known business forums one day.

Full of people who say spent the VAT/CT money and now I can't pay it back. Advice is stuff them you can get away with it. Pees me off.

[vadhert]

What a complete clusterf*ck.

There is no way pleading ignorance will grant mercy from the behemoth of HMRC.

This makes even the off shore schemer's look squeaky clean.

[psychocandy]

What a complete clusterf*ck.

There is no way pleading ignorance will grant mercy from the behemoth of HMRC.

This makes even the off shore schemer's look squeaky clean.

Maybe not. But my brothers experience seems to indicate they are very flexible to getting "something" rather than trying to get it all and getting nothing.

Like I said, in the end, I reckon they knocked about 50% off the total owed (which included fines). I reckon in the end hes going to pay less than he owed in the first place - and hes able to pay it over a LOT of years.

Not fair to those who pay it all properly.

[northernladuk]

I agree. Take a look at one of the well known business forums one day.

Full of people who say spent the VAT/CT money and now I can't pay it back. Advice is stuff them you can get away with it. Pees me off.

Interesting, I'll have to have a look at those. Does make me wonder though, are all these ignorant individuals just being greedy or are there some cases where genuine business have gone under and have had to spend that money as a gamble to try and stay afloat that ultimately fails. I think there is a difference. Dunno if that is the case on the forums you mention though.