"IR35 could well be dead in a few months" ?

[TheCyclingProgrammer]

Well this is interesting. Read this:

Contractor Employment Intermediaries reporting still in doubt, despite HMRC response

Note the part about subcontractors. Sounds like what we have been saying all along right?

Only problem is, the guidance this appears to be quoting had changed and it no longer says anything like this.

Is it just an oversight or did HMRC change their mind about the scope of this?

[mudskipper]

I was thinking about the trades example:

Plumber has Ltd Co.

Kitchen fitter fits kitchen. He subcontracts fitting the boiler to the plumber. Presumably as it stands, this would fall under the reporting requirements. But what if the plumber employs (under PAYE) a plumber's mate. The plumber may do the job herself, or she may get her employee to do it. How does that fit in?

[jamesbrown]

Well this is interesting. Read this:

Contractor Employment Intermediaries reporting still in doubt, despite HMRC response

Note the part about subcontractors. Sounds like what we have been saying all along right?

Only problem is, the guidance this appears to be quoting had changed and it no longer says anything like this.

Is it just an oversight or did HMRC change their mind about the scope of this?

It should be blindingly obvious to HMRC that reporting on general (sub)contracts for goods/services that do not involve the direct supply of workers will be completely untenable. Perhaps they're having this debate internally and some of the cracks are being exposed to the outside world. Either way, we need to make this representation to HMRC in the coming months. I'd be interested to know if ContractorCalculator could shed any light on that quote; as you say, the link is the one we've been quoting here, which makes no such distinction. The post from Lisa is also helpful insofar as it confirms our understanding of "agency" and seems to indicate that not all subcontractor relationships are covered by the reporting requirements (which begs the question, where is the line drawn? Hopefully, as described above.)

[jamesbrown]

I was thinking about the trades example:

Plumber has Ltd Co.

Kitchen fitter fits kitchen. He subcontracts fitting the boiler to the plumber. Presumably as it stands, this would fall under the reporting requirements. But what if the plumber employs (under PAYE) a plumber's mate. The plumber may do the job herself, or she may get her employee to do it. How does that fit in?

I think it would depend on whether the work was actually conducted by the PAYE employee; if not (in whole or in part), there would be a reporting requirement, and you'd only find out by asking the subcontractor (with fairly high risk of being told to bugger off, no doubt).