IR35 - Guilty as charged! - Updated May 2016 - NOT GUILTY!

[Munchers]

FWIW, I agree as one of those that was, er, skeptical. There are so many sockies around and the reference to HMRE triggered by sock-o-meter, I'm afraid. Sincere apologies to the OP. I'm really glad it worked out for them.

Thank you.

I must admit I was gob smacked that HMRE caused such a fuss! You learn.

[Munchers]

Well done on winning your case and thanks for keeping us updated.

Out of curiosity how much did you end up paying your tax advisor?

We ended up with the original 'insurance' advisor - so nothing. Have to say after the initial disaster they were absolutely fantastic.

[Munchers]

That is pretty much the experience I had and the handful of people I know who've been investigatedhave also had. Two or three years back and forward and then they give up. Only difference being that I don't know anyone who had problems with the appointed tax consultant via insurance. It's never been a 'quick end' where your advisor sends a couple of letters and it all comes to a conclusion. Two to three years is 'normal'.

Anyone reading this should understand that you are not the only priority for either the tax consultant or the HMRC bod, so, just because the worry consumes your every waking hour, it's not the same for everyone else involved. be prepared for long periods of inactivity followed by HMRC asking the same things over and over again with gaps of months in between. Also, as stated on here, don't talk to them. With me they even tried (over numerous phone calls over months) "why won't you just answer the question we're asking ? We can probably put this to bed if you do". Answer every question with "Please put your questions in writing and they will be dealt with in due course by my advisors."

I hear what you say but coming out the other side I maintain the first advisor was shocking. A couple of points:

1) Told us over the phone he was travelling round Europe on work the week before submission deadline (had it for 2 months) and would be able draft a response in the airport lounge. Maybe it's me but...........
2) We asked to see the response before he sent it, so he sent it through and it didn't answer the questions, it provided information that wasn't requested and finally summed our case as "being inside IR35". We pointed out that he'd missed NOT out of the sentence to which he responded 'it would have been picked up'. Probably by the air hostess.

[Munchers]

Did you ever work out what the potential total tax liability was going to be ?

I dread to think what mine would be

It was just over £100,000 before interest & fines. We thought it could be £200,000 if they went to town on us.

[Munchers]

Just re-read the whole thread as I missed it first time around...

I think some of the people having ago at him throughout the thread owe him an apology. Came here no doubt at the lowest point of his life and poster where arseholes with him.

FFS if we can't support each other during a IR35 investigation and stop being dicks when can we.

Shameful stuff...

Thanks to the OP for coming back and letting us know the outcome.

The lesson learnt from it for me, or not as I already do it, is use a IR35 specialist for legal and insurance AND an accountant who understand contractors.

PCG+ and Abbey Tax all the way for me...

Thanks for support - it was tough at times but more good support than negative.

For the record Abbey Tax were appalling - we moved to them from 'insured' advisors and the advice, cost, attitude was unbelievable. Must point out that it was one person only. We did complain and refused to pay - lost our deposit only.

[Munchers]

Fancy sharing the questions and which ones are optional?

Congratulations on the win - did they say "we think we're right, but we'll let you off" kind of thing, or was it a "we're wrong"? I think I know the answer to that question

Just said they wouldn't be taking this any further. Also that they wouldn't test any contracts for 3 years - interestingly they choose the words carefully by saying they wouldn't be back but they didn't say they'd consider the company to be outside IR35. I suppose that means they can come back in 4 years and test and then apply retrospectively for the previous three years if they decide you are now inside?

[Munchers]

Just out of interest:
What sort of Qs were directed to you? Was it Qs to ascertain SDC and MOO? Were there any other avenues they explored that night be considered surprising or irrelevant?

Do you have an example or two of things requested which you were not legally required to provide?

Did they contact your end Client(s)? If so do you know how they approached that and what they asked them?

It's nearly 18 months since we submitted responses so I'll post questions later.

The questions were varied and at times appeared innocent. They covered all the main points you'd expect about how many contracts? What did you do? Who did you report too? How did you work with staff, which office did you work in, did you have a desk etc etc. All pretty obvious for experienced IR35 people but worded to catch you out if you didn't know.

The one that really struck me was asking for end client contact details and then later asking for the agency details. The questions seemed innocent! We would have provided this but were advised (very clearly) that this was phishing and if we provided this information we were giving our permission for them to make direct contact. Our advisors basically ignored these questions and told HMRC to use the law to access this information - i.e. turn into an official IR35 investigation rather than the compliance route they were using.

[Munchers]

Glad u have a favourable outcome - well done.
Would you be prepared to post the questions they asked you?

Cheers, Mr C.

I'll post them soon - I haven't got access at the moment.

[psychocandy]

I think this covers your first points.

Is that NLUK in the pic?

[jamesbrown]

Just re-read the whole thread as I missed it first time around...

I think some of the people having ago at him throughout the thread owe him an apology. Came here no doubt at the lowest point of his life and poster where arseholes with him.

FWIW, I agree as one of those that was, er, skeptical. There are so many sockies around and the reference to HMRE triggered by sock-o-meter, I'm afraid. Sincere apologies to the OP. I'm really glad it worked out for them.