One in the eye for cowboy agencies

**malvolio** · 15 December 2006, 15:07

If you want a USP, how about the kind of things that the current market does not deliver at all? For example:

Only use B2B contracts that align to the one between you and the client
Sell contractors to clients, not jobs to work-seekers
Sell service providers, not contractors
Understand the diference between quialifications and experience
Understand which skills are industry independent

And just to keep the pretendy contractors quiet, fixed and published margins.

Go on, bet you can't...

**mlawren** · 15 December 2006, 16:20

Hi malvolio,
firstly thanks for the quick response.
Not sure it's possible to incorporate all your points into a classic "Agency or Employment Businss" model. The law is quite clear on these things and there are some things you just cannot do.
I like the B2B contracts and selling contractors into client requirement and not jobs to work seekers. This has been working for years with models/actors/sports people (entertainment) agencies. The main difference here, is that the candidate (talent) pays their agent a percentage of their income in return for finding them work. Not the other way round, as in our type of businesses. But if you're willing to consider paying a talent agent to find you work and we have enough support for the idea. Then I'm game

Sticking with the classic model we have today, that is the "client" pays the agent or employment business, not the candidate. Your last two points are very relevant.

My intention is to only recruit within the market and skillset I know best (I won't plug here). I've been doing it for 10 years and climbed to a pretty high level, so figure I know what I'm talking about. And yes, an agent who know the difference between qualifications and experience. One who understands which skills are industry independant. Nice one, I like them both.
How about the difference between experience and competance. Might have been doing it badly for a long time

My intention is to try and raise the bar a little, actually speaking to candidates first to find out a little more about them than, availability, rate, cv please.

And thanks again for quick response, keep them coming...

--------

mlawren

**malvolio** · 15 December 2006, 16:36

Like I said, depends how brave you are and how good your legal support is. My reading of the opt out of the Agency Regs (and according to the DTI themselves, to opt out is to opt out of the whole damn thing), means that you are not a work seeker as a result but a company looking for business. As such, S134c doesn't apply and, more importantly, the company can quite happily pay for expert marketing services...

Then of course you can go to market with a zero percent markup to the client, and make your revenue from your invoice factoring department. Only works for true B2B though...

As for skills vs experience vs competence - I've been beating that drum for years, ask the guys on here.

**mlawren** · 15 December 2006, 16:52

Thanks for the feedback,
your comments are valid. like I said, it's only an idea at the moment so we'll see what comes of it. Personally I'm very up beat about the whole thing, but then I would be. It's my idea.
I'm no solicitor, but I thought the opt out was for "EU Working time regulations".
Have a great day, I've got to go now. but I'll be back...

**tim123** · 15 December 2006, 16:55

I actually managed to get an agent to persuade a client to interview me on the basis of good general skills, but lacking the specific knowledge that the client (thinks he) wants. He was seeking up to 12 people and demanding that all had in depth knowledge of 3GPP, which IMHO was stupid of him as these people are only slightly easier to find than rocking horse sh1t.

So, client rings me up and says;

"I've been persuaded by X that you do have lots of good skills to offer and that you are a good candidate for one of my positions"

"So what is it that you know about the 3GPP spec that isn't on your CV.

Doh!

"He then made it clear that he didn't want to discuss anything except what I knew about*the* spec".

End of conversation

tim

**wendigo100** · 18 December 2006, 09:18

Originally posted by mlawren

I'm considering starting my own agency that will work with the PCG and REC to provide honest, clear service to the contractor community.

We get one of these every few months.

Good luck.

**Epiphone** · 18 December 2006, 11:49

Originally posted by malvolio

Only use B2B contracts that align to the one between you and the client

Never understood this. If you have a good IR35 contract between YourCo and AgentCo why are the IR bothered about a completely unrelated contract between Agentco and Client?

Surely the two contracts, in theory, are seperate?

**malvolio** · 18 December 2006, 11:54

Oh you poor deluded fool...

Do you think that if the contract between agent and client named you personally as the worker (not your LtdCo), or ensured that any substitutes offered can be vetoed by either the client or the agency, or that you will work 200 days at 8 hours a day minimum (all of which are quite likely to be in there...) that all your carefully argued outside-IR35 clauses are worth a damn?

The test is between worker and end client. If the contractual chain doesn't align end-to-end, it will be disregarded, starting with your contract with the agency.

That's why I said that end-to-end contracts are an absolute requirement.

**Mordac** · 18 December 2006, 11:57

Originally posted by Epiphone

Never understood this. If you have a good IR35 contract between YourCo and AgentCo why are the IR bothered about a completely unrelated contract between Agentco and Client?

Surely the two contracts, in theory, are seperate?

Because the contract between the agency and client is more likely to define your work status in Hectors favour. And since you will never see it, much less be able to change it, you're fairly well stuffed.

One in the eye for cowboy agencies