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Is using an agency subject to DOTAS registration?

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    #11
    This is just gets more ridiculous by the day. Regardless how we got into these schemes, whether or not we should have used them blah,blah,blah.... how are you supposed to make an informed decision on what to do when a DOTAS APN arrives on the door based on your financial situation, when you don't know if you will receive a further APN in the future from a non-DOTAS scheme !!!
    STRENGTH - "A river cuts through rock not because of its power, but its persistence"

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      #12
      Originally posted by regron View Post
      This is just gets more ridiculous by the day. Regardless how we got into these schemes, whether or not we should have used them blah,blah,blah.... how are you supposed to make an informed decision on what to do when a DOTAS APN arrives on the door based on your financial situation, when you don't know if you will receive a further APN in the future from a non-DOTAS scheme !!!
      You simply assume that if you are paying tax on income (loan, salary, fees, etc) that is less than the rate that an employee would pay, chances are that you will get a demand at some point for not just the difference, but perhaps a bit more besides.

      If you have had such income for a particular (tax) year and laid aside the difference, then once the time limit for assessment passes (12 months beyond the return filing date) the money is yours to spend.

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        #13
        unless a discovery assessment is issued, in which case 4 years?

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          #14
          Or they try GAAR ! ?
          STRENGTH - "A river cuts through rock not because of its power, but its persistence"

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            #15
            Or they suspect malpractice in some other, earlier or later tax year?
            Blog? What blog...?

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              #16
              Originally posted by malvolio View Post
              Or they suspect malpractice in some other, earlier or later tax year?
              All true but dependent upon circumstances.

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                #17
                Originally posted by jbryce View Post
                But this means they can apply it to anything that realises a tax advantage as they can decide what is disclosable without recourse to the tax courts.
                That is precisely how the law has been phrased though - it gives HMRC a very wide margin to decide for themselves what constitutes as disclosable - and then issue an APN for which there is no right of appeal.

                You do have recourse - you take them to court to prove your underlying arrangements are valid - and get the APN money back, plus interest. But you can't appeal the decision of the APN itself, so you have to stump up the cash first.

                Although the law is not intended to go after LtdCo contractors operating outside IR35 - and it would be a real stretch for them to try that - I am not aware of anything which will actually prevent them from giving it a punt - because there is no mechanism to appeal whatever they decide - you would need pay the APN and then take HMRC to court to prove you are outside IR35.
                Last edited by centurian; 7 November 2014, 15:00.

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                  #18
                  GAAR ooo ARRRR!

                  Originally posted by regron View Post
                  Or they try GAAR ! ?
                  GAAR makes more sense - and, in theory, is a lightweight way of getting clarity on a scheme.
                  If the GAAR rules on a scheme then one would know what is coming, however, again in theory, the GAAR would not apply retrospectively.

                  So why aren't they using the GAAR to challenge the current crop of schemes? It seems a clearer way than stating an arrangement is 'advisable'.

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                    #19
                    Originally posted by centurian View Post
                    That is precisely how the law has been phrased though - it gives HMRC a very wide margin to decide for themselves what constitutes as disclosable - and then issue an APN for which there is no right of appeal.

                    You do have recourse - you take them to court to prove your underlying arrangements are valid - and get the APN money back, plus interest. But you can't appeal the decision of the APN itself, so you have to stump up the cash first.

                    Although the law is not intended to go after LtdCo contractors operating outside IR35 - and it would be a real stretch for them to try that - I am not aware of anything which will actually prevent them from giving it a punt - because there is no mechanism to appeal whatever they decide - you would need pay the APN and then take HMRC to court to prove you are outside IR35.
                    Saying this is not popular here but no reason HMRC will stop here. Ltd company and everything else - HMRC will decide what is due, not law. They send an APN and you have to pay. To prove its not due, come up with a big sum of money for a proper QC. If you go unprepared without a good QC HMRC wins easy and sets precedence - FTT or UTT does not matter. It has been set in such a way that HMRC will get what they want.

                    As I was reading somewhere the other day, people paid in blood to get the freedoms which we enjoy but this government has undone a bit of that and trying to do even more. At some point it will start to roll back but how much damage would have been done by then who knows.

                    I hope all those think this will never apply to Ltd Co. are correct but even with running a Ltd Co. I feel it will not be the case.

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                      #20
                      Originally posted by centurian View Post
                      Although the law is not intended to go after LtdCo contractors operating outside IR35 - and it would be a real stretch for them to try that - .
                      I would not be confident of that position.

                      Anti avoidance rules have force against taxpaying entities. That could be individuals, companies, trusts, partnerships etc. I know of no limitation on DOTAS or any other AA law that limits them.

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