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  1. #21

    Fingers like lightning

    billybiro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by northernladuk View Post
    Do the required hours, deliver the work and invoice on. Not worth getting in a flap over. Something had been pointed out and a solution had been offered.

    You aren't being accused really. Someone has probably mentioned it in passing and it's been dealt with.

    The agency don't care. If you want to stay there then just make a little more effort to be visible, keep your nose clean and Bob's your Uncle.
    TL;DR - Do as you're told my your superiors and become wide open to SD&C.

    Please don't take the above advice.

    You're getting the work done, that's what matters. Point this out to whoever needs reminding of it. Also remind them you're a contractor, not a permie and are not subject to SD&C, only to deliver the work that's required when it's required, which you're doing. If that's not good enough for them, politely invite them to terminate your contract.

  2. #22

    Super poster


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    Quote Originally Posted by northernladuk View Post
    That is the perfect example of how not to deal with it IMO. That's more likely to start a tulip storm over something that can easily be put to bed.

    Maybe I'm being a bit blasť about this as I've had plenty of little mails or comments like this over the years, even as a permie. Where there is a long commute I'll usually put the effort in for the first month and deliver and then switch to a later working time if it's available and acceptable. Coming in between 9.30 and 10 and leaving later to avoid the traffic etc. Invariably one of the 7.30 or 8am starters will make a comment about me never being around so it will get mentioned. A quick chat evidence I'm there for a couple of hours after he's gone and I'm delivering always puts it to bed to those that count. Complainer will just stew and make jibes about me wetting the bed when I come early when I need to.

    Just seems another simple case of perceptions that can be dealt with very simply. No need to take offence or stir it up.

    CC'ing agency is an odd one though I must admit.

    On thing that does occur to me... there are always two sides to a story and often no smoke without fire.


    A 2 line email refuting the allegation? Seems perfectly reasonable to me, and "putting it to bed". I'm not suggesting going stomping in, demanding names.

    I noticed your first post suggesting the OP is not being accused.

    They are being accused, it has been brought to their lead, and been sent to the agency (whether they care or not is irrelevant).

    And your final point about there is no smoke without fire is exactly why I would be firmly refuting it.

    Anyhoo, each to their own

  3. #23

    My post count is Majestic

    northernladuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by billybiro View Post
    TL;DR - Do as you're told my your superiors and become wide open to SD&C.

    Please don't take the above advice.

    You're getting the work done, that's what matters. Point this out to whoever needs reminding of it. Also remind them you're a contractor, not a permie and are not subject to SD&C, only to deliver the work that's required when it's required, which you're doing. If that's not good enough for them, politely invite them to terminate your contract.
    Maybe you should have read it as it isn't that long. Might have saved making yourself look like an idiot again.
    The required hours are in his contact. Nothing to do with SD&C.
    Adhering to clients core hours is a requirement of the gig. Nothing to do with SD&C
    Adhering to clients working times is a matter of professional courtesy as we supply them a service. Even more so when the question of times is linked to a suggestion of not fulfilling contractual obligations. Checking a supplier is delivering is supplier management. Nothing to do with SD&C.

    And where in my post does it say do what the superiors say?

    Loving the fact you try point a virtually non existing IR35 issues and call them his 'superiors'. Smart.
    Last edited by northernladuk; 6th September 2017 at 12:38.
    'CUK forum personality of 2011' - Winner - Yes really!!!!

  4. #24

    Still gathering requirements...


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    Quote Originally Posted by Jolily120913 View Post
    Didn't expect so many responses! Thank you to everyone that has left a message, really good advice. I'm in the office today and my boss isn't (tempted to ask where she is but the irony might be lost ha!). So there's no ability to have a chat today.

    I was angry, to be honest. The accusing nature of the email, the copying in of the agency, the fact she didn't talk to me face to face, etc. But I see no value in making a deal of it. I was very tempted to send an email similar to jmo21s above though!

    I have plenty of call logs to prove it, and the way the business works, there are naturally more queries at certain times of the day, so I've got a very easy (and true) excuse. I think the assumption that I wasn't doing my job when in fact I really was, I was going above and beyond by often taking calls in the evenings as well, and the project is actually ahead of time and budget, was the thing that annoyed me. Maybe felt like I deserved the benefit of the doubt but whatever.

    I think I'm just going to basically ignore it. I'll make less calls and when the emails come in, she'll see that and I can raise the point politely in meetings that it's hard to phone unless I leave the office so I'm sticking to emails instead. I'll let her make the decision about how she'd prefer me to work at that point.
    OP I would not recommend this course of action; in my mind that comes across as being a little bit childish. An old boss in permieland said to me once "perception is the truth, even when it's not the truth" - it is a worryingly accurate statement.

    Like I said in my opinion, a quick, informal chat to nip it in the bud shows that you've acknowledged what she's said and are moving on in the direction she has suggested, whilst highlighting why you feel the need to work in the manner you have been. Definitely, at all costs, do not bring this up in a meeting between yourselves and multiple other parties - I've seen this backfire many times because someone has kept an ace up their sleeve.

    All that said, if your project is on time and in budget I don't really see what the issue is, other than your client wants to get their monies worth out of your day rate despite the project's success.

  5. #25

    Should post faster

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    Quote Originally Posted by mattfx View Post
    OP I would not recommend this course of action; in my mind that comes across as being a little bit childish. An old boss in permieland said to me once "perception is the truth, even when it's not the truth" - it is a worryingly accurate statement.

    Like I said in my opinion, a quick, informal chat to nip it in the bud shows that you've acknowledged what she's said and are moving on in the direction she has suggested, whilst highlighting why you feel the need to work in the manner you have been. Definitely, at all costs, do not bring this up in a meeting between yourselves and multiple other parties - I've seen this backfire many times because someone has kept an ace up their sleeve.

    All that said, if your project is on time and in budget I don't really see what the issue is, other than your client wants to get their monies worth out of your day rate despite the project's success.
    Yes. The perception is there, even though its a load of bollocks.

    Change the perception. The best way to do this is to start taking the calls in the office, regardless of how noisy it is, and never mention it again to anyone.

    By all means keep logs of things, but if you just start being visible I think the issue will go away.

    If you keep taking calls in the car and offer proof when it gets raised again, thats the absolute worst scenario. You won't enjoy it there if you do that.

  6. #26

    Old Greg is my bitch's bitch

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jolily120913 View Post
    Hi

    I'm in a contract which has 4 weeks left to go. I'm a Project Manager and I report into a Programme Manager who is also a contractor with the same agency.

    Today, I received an email from the Programme Manager saying "she'd had some feedback from the room that I'd been coming in late, taking long lunches and leaving early and could I please make sure I'm doing the required hours".

    This has never been mentioned to me face to face, timesheets have always been signed, and part of my role involves phoning other sites and troubleshooting their issues. The office is loud so I sometimes disappear during the day or stay in the car when I get back from lunch and make some calls. It's an office where people are going to meetings a lot so no one is at their desk all day so I didn't see it as a problem and I was getting the work done. Apparently, now, it looks bad and I'm being accused of doing short days.

    Worse, the email was CCd into the contact at the agency for some reason.

    What's the best way of handling this? Should I not mention it but make sure I'm at my desk more? Or speak to my manager and say I was doing work but I'll stop that and stay at my desk now? Or should I have a chat and express that I'm actually quite insulted that it was more than implied I'm being lazy and unprofessional to the recruitment agency which could affect future roles. I actually am a bit offended but I don't want a confrontational meeting with no upside, what's the point in that.

    What would you guys do?
    If you have been working full days, explain this by email reply. Offer to make sure you are more visible going forward. Carry on professionally.
    Where there's muck there's brass.

  7. #27

    More time posting than coding


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    What time do you get into the office in the morning and leave in the afternoon ? And is there any expectation of core hours ?

  8. #28

    Old Greg is my bitch's bitch

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    Quote Originally Posted by adubya View Post
    What time do you get into the office in the morning and leave in the afternoon ? And is there any expectation of core hours ?
    The morning?
    Where there's muck there's brass.

  9. #29

    Old Greg is my bitch's bitch

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    Quote Originally Posted by jmo21 View Post
    A 2 line email refuting the allegation? Seems perfectly reasonable to me, and "putting it to bed". I'm not suggesting going stomping in, demanding names.

    I noticed your first post suggesting the OP is not being accused.

    They are being accused, it has been brought to their lead, and been sent to the agency (whether they care or not is irrelevant).

    And your final point about there is no smoke without fire is exactly why I would be firmly refuting it.

    Anyhoo, each to their own
    Never let a lie stand.
    Where there's muck there's brass.

  10. #30

    Should post faster


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    I love reading the 'advice' given by some of the posters to threads like these. It makes me marvel at how some of them manage to complete a contract.

    The OP needs to have a low key discussion with the PM and no, I wouldnt advise tailgating the person into the tea point as someone else always comes in at an inopportune time.

    The OP needs to explain their 'routine' and offer apologies (not grovelling) for not keeping the PM in the loop and ask if they want the OP to book a room as an alternative to making calls in the car (seriously!?).

    Then, the OP needs to understand that not all employees love the contractor culture and can make life quite difficult if they get a whiff of a contractor potentially taking the piss.

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