Crunch

[darren_fell]

Hi all,

In answer to some of your questions Crunch is a very different offering to the traditional firms like the SJD's of this world who use franchised Accountancy offices locally. Crunch is a fully formed Chartered Accountancy practice with easy-to-use online systems - not just spreadsheets.

We've invested a considerable amount in technology to be able to pass on a fairer price. We feel £59.50 per month is certainly it.

With the self assessment we chose to separate this as many clients like to do it themselves, however if they want it added in, it starts at a one-off £120+VAT. Still very cost effective total annual service at £834+VAT.

We have many tiers of personnel in our team and our Account Managers are the gateway to customers. They provide the customer service, manage all the HMRC and Companies House paperwork and book in the customer calls with our Accountants and Tax specialists. These guys are very well qualified being led by ex-HMRC Chartered Tax Specialist Steve Crouch.

Finally the Pay Yourself feature allows you to pay yourself in the most tax efficient way with salary and dividends. It's far more than a payroll system.

Guys, just using my right to reply. There's many options out there for freelancers and contractors. Crunch is simply another option however we do it a unique way.

Thanks,

Darren Fell
Team Crunch.

[IR35 Avoider]

I had a conventional accountant who was very good, but I've got to a point in life where I can and want to keep things very simple.

So no accumulating money within the company, no investing within the company, no employee expenses, no company expenses other than the accountants bill and the cost of the employee. Really can't be bothered to claim any expenditure through the company, not even for computers etc. Essentially it's money in, pay the accountant, pay the flat-rate VAT, split the rest between salary and pension contributions. No dividends since I envision treating myself as IR35-caught - even if I'm not, for me, dividends only offer a slight advantage over pension contributions, in that the money is available to spend 10 years earlier, so why not insulate myself againt the risk of an IR35 argument?

In short, I don't need advice or planning, just the cheapest and most convenient way possible of complying with regulatory requirements, i.e. computing and submitting corporation tax, submitting all the various payroll forms, VAT etc.

No expenses and no dividends should make me investigation-proof.

Salary and pension split should ensure income 100% tax-free in the short-term, though eventually I will be taxed at an average of 15% on the money in the pension. (Edit: which makes the pension route for extracting money 6% cheaper than dividends anyway.)

This is if I take up working again, which I've no plans to do at the moment.

[williamdavis]

Hi all,

In answer to some of your questions Crunch is a very different offering to the traditional firms like the SJD's of this world who use franchised Accountancy offices locally. Crunch is a fully formed Chartered Accountancy practice with easy-to-use online systems - not just spreadsheets.

We've invested a considerable amount in technology to be able to pass on a fairer price. We feel £59.50 per month is certainly it.

With the self assessment we chose to separate this as many clients like to do it themselves, however if they want it added in, it starts at a one-off £120+VAT. Still very cost effective total annual service at £834+VAT.

We have many tiers of personnel in our team and our Account Managers are the gateway to customers. They provide the customer service, manage all the HMRC and Companies House paperwork and book in the customer calls with our Accountants and Tax specialists. These guys are very well qualified being led by ex-HMRC Chartered Tax Specialist Steve Crouch.

Finally the Pay Yourself feature allows you to pay yourself in the most tax efficient way with salary and dividends. It's far more than a payroll system.

Guys, just using my right to reply. There's many options out there for freelancers and contractors. Crunch is simply another option however we do it a unique way.

Thanks,

Darren Fell
Team Crunch.

Alternatively Darren - I guess if I know exactly what I'm doing and have no questions I could always use PlanIT's FREE ePlan online system (massive advert on this forum) and pay a local accountant £120 once a year to do my self assessment and save myself £714. Or even buy a book and do it all myself, I'm sure there's a dummy's guide.

As for call centres - when I call up I don't want to have to explain who I am, what I do, what my plans are each time I call and then to call back to speak to an expert. What I want, is to talk to 'my accountant'.

I just think £60 is a lot to pay for an online system and call centre back up (I can see how it's good for you but not for me, you are after all charging a premium). Don't get me wrong everybody is looking for the nirvana of an online 'thingy' which people pay to use whilst I sun myself in the Caribbean counting my pennies (if I were smart enough I'd do the same).

I get what you're offering, I really do and I'm sure your system at £60 a month has value but it's no replacement for an accountant. I guess your target audience is the experienced contractor who asks very few questions, doesn't need much help and just wants an easy to use system. But don't you think £714 a year is quite a bit to charge.

As for people wanting to do their own self assessment - what rubbish. Have you ever done your own self assessment? It's a total ball ache which I'm sure is why you charge a starting price of £120 + VAT. And why does it start at £120 how much does it go up to?

Basically at £20 a month I see it has value (after all you've got to make money), at £60 it's very expensive.

[northernladuk]

To be fair to Darren him and his team will have identified a core market and designed something to suit them. It probably isn't for everyone as has been pointed out so far but it must work for the targetted people.

I would be eager to hear the feedback from my colleagues who have used this rather than how this won't suit individuals and the sales patter which is what this thread is comprised of so far. Nothing wrong with that.. all interesting stuff but I want to know what it is like in action before I commit that money and sack my half decent accountant..

To this end Darren if you would like to PM me I will be happy to take up your 1 year free trial so I can feed back to the forum for research purposes only ofc!!

[Tarquin Farquhar]

No. It's not free, it's costing you your day rate to do it.

Either way, repeat using a minimum £7 an hour. You get the same answer.

It's costing your rate, not twice your rate. I should have said that you get it without having to hand over money for it. What you are paying for it with is your time. But single time, not double.

When you work on a contract, say at £70/hour, every hour you work you give up 1 hour of your time and receive £70 = 1 hour's billing.

When you spend time in order to get something "free", every hour you spend you give up 1 hour of your time and receive what you are "working" in order to receive for "free". It should therefore be valued at 1 hour's billing = £70. I agree that's not free.

It makes no sense to count your time twice, as in "you not only gave up 1 hour of your time, you didn't get paid £70 for it". Either look at it that you gave up 1 hour, so that's what it cost you; or look at it that you gave up time that could have earned you £70, but only if you had indeed worked it: so it cost you the £70 that you didn't earn for that time. Either way of looking at it explains that the result was not free, but cost you 1 hour/£70. But not both.


As you say, it most definitely means that it is not free, and indeed not even cheap. Looking back from later in life, it will look even more expensive - what we waste most is our lives.

[jono]

Hello

I setup my Limited Company with Crunch in May last year. Found the service to be great. The online app is really easy to use and looks after pretty much everything for me. Obviously setting up a new company for the first time I did and still do have the odd question which are answered either via email or phone very quickly.

The part of being Limited I found most confusing was how much to pay myself, Crunch have recently added a module to the app which takes care of this. Its great to always have an update picture of how things - how much I'm owed, who is late, how much VAT I owe etc

I'm really happy I chose to go with Crunch.

[williamdavis]

Hello

I setup my Limited Company with Crunch in May last year. Found the service to be great. The online app is really easy to use and looks after pretty much everything for me. Obviously setting up a new company for the first time I did and still do have the odd question which are answered either via email or phone very quickly.

The part of being Limited I found most confusing was how much to pay myself, Crunch have recently added a module to the app which takes care of this. Its great to always have an update picture of how things - how much I'm owed, who is late, how much VAT I owe etc

I'm really happy I chose to go with Crunch.

Jono you are the first person I have ever heard who casually said 'I did and still do have the odd question'. The 'odd question' are you joking? Everybody I know who went contracting, including me, didn't just have the odd question, they had literally hundreds of questions. This forum is testament to this, there are hundreds probably thousands of questions being asked by contractors.

When I started contracting, which I might say was pretty daunting, and especially stressful when I went limited, I had a huge number and range of questions and not just the odd one. What I wanted was the warm soothing words of a seasoned and experienced accountant who could support me and answer all of my many questions. I was onto my accountant daily, hourly at some stages. This is why I was so surprised to see Crunch employing account managers who are there to support clients being paid little more than minimum wage and only needing one years office experience.

The model you refer to is one of automation, simply key in a few details each month press a button and 'hey presto' out pops your end of year accounts. This might work for amazon or online shopping where the consequences of not keying in the correct number may result in a few extra tins of beans or two copies of a book. The consequences of miss keying tax information are far more serious. I want somebody to help me, to tell me if I'm not putting the right numbers in and help me plan for the following year, this is usually achieved with the support of an accountant and a good one.

If I didn't have any questions and didn't need the immediate support of an accountant and no not one where I had to pre book a conference, I'm sure Crunch would be good, but as for paying £60 a month I might as well pay a bit extra and get an accountant.

[Gareth from planIT]

The discussion is comparing the merits of an online bookkeeping/accounting package versus a good Accountant.

planIT’s e-plan solution combines the 2 – bespoke bookkeeping software for contractors with all the quarterly and year end accounting and tax returns done by Chartered Accountants, with unlimited telephone support. It is a little more expensive than others but you get what you pay for (The Freeplan offer is limited to the software only).

[simonsjdaccountancy]

The discussion is comparing the merits of an online bookkeeping/accounting package versus a good Accountant.

planIT’s e-plan solution combines the 2 – bespoke bookkeeping software for contractors with all the quarterly and year end accounting and tax returns done by Chartered Accountants, with unlimited telephone support. It is a little more expensive than others but you get what you pay for (The Freeplan offer is limited to the software only).

I agree. Contractors require an Accountant (unless of course you choose to do it all yourself). The bookkeeping package used by the Accountant is really neither here nor there provided it is functional. You can enter figures in on a spreadsheet or you can fill them in on line - the point being, you are still entering the figures somewhere!

There are many on line bookkeeping packages available such as Crunch and FreeAgent, but to my mind I can't see why you would pay on on going monthly fee for the software when you can pop down to WH Smiths and buy Sage Instant accounts for £89, or indeed use our spreadsheet for nothing!

[ratewhore]

Darren,

I think the idea of him posting his question here was to get a hands on opinion from his colleagues and people in a similar situation, not to get the same sales pitch he has already read on the sights already linked.

Thanks for your input and good job at marketing yourself to us....

I made the same points for all the accountants that post on this board, turning it into a marketing site...