Digital camera

[oracleslave]

Out of interest what would you recommend as a good entry level SLR? My wife has been getting quite into photographing our boys and is now a dab hand at cleaning and cropping the photos in Photoshop as well. She has basically hit the limits of our old Sony point and shoot and has been hinting that she would like an SLR for a while.

I'm looking for something that isn't going to cost an arm and a leg (i.e. I don't want to blow £3,000 on the latest uber pro kit) but has most of the bells and whistles. It would be perfect if you can buy add-ons at a later stage as she keeps improving.

Unfortunately I know nothing about cameras

Had a look at a couple of cannons and they seem to get quite good reviews but I have no idea what i'm looking for really.

Am no expert so RH may disagree but my wife has a Canon 400D and loves it. There may be a newer model out now but there is nought wrong with this camera imo for someone starting out.

[Peoplesoft bloke]

Am no expert so RH may disagree but my wife has a Canon 400D and loves it. There may be a newer model out now but there is nought wrong with this camera imo for someone starting out.

Another vote for Canon here - I have a 300D (now obsolete model) but it's been well worth it (and the newer ones are cheaper and better).

TBH, though, a Nikon or any other similar manufacturer is going to be just as good an SLR. They are streets ahead of what they used to be considering the prices.

[TheFaQQer]

Another vote for Canon here - I have a 300D (now obsolete model) but it's been well worth it (and the newer ones are cheaper and better).

TBH, though, a Nikon or any other similar manufacturer is going to be just as good an SLR. They are streets ahead of what they used to be considering the prices.

Thirded - I've always used Canon. I moved from my EOS350 (film) to an EOS300D when it came out and been very pleased with it.

Might look at a better point and shoot at some stage soon, as my current 4MP one is a bit long in the tooth.

[where did my id go?]

I'm just looking at dSLRs at the moment.

I'm tempted by the olympus e-510 which seems to be available as a kit with two lenses for £440ish (slightly cheaper from ebay but Im a bit dubious about ebay for stuff like this). 10mp and has built in image stability and sensor cleaning. People say good things about the olympus lenses.

or the e410 at £375 ? (lacks the IS and physically smaller - so potentially easier to use by the ladies)

what do the experts think?

[realityhack]

I got my wife one of these

http://www.fujifilm.co.uk/consumer/d...pix-f50fd-9915

It is supposed to be quite good

Beautiful mid-high end compact - lovely spec, good optics, fast lens, bit low on the telephoto factor, ok shutter speed range, good video capture for something that size. Shouldn't be sitting in it's box IMO.

Am no expert so RH may disagree but my wife has a Canon 400D and loves it. There may be a newer model out now but there is nought wrong with this camera imo for someone starting out.

I'm a fan of Canon cameras for 6 reasons:
1) Easy - very easy to use, v well designed for usability.
2) They use some of the best quality CCDs available on the market, second only to uber-prestige manufacturers like Leica, Ricoh or Hasselblad.
4) The EF lenses are well made - fast focusing and backwards compatible.
5) You get a lot of value for money with entry-level models.
6) You're not limited to proprietary accessories, as with brands like Minolta - so a wide range available (But stick with Canon lenses).

Nowt wrong with the 400D, it's almost entry level, but if you're feeling flush, go for the 40D instead. You'll never regret it, and would have to go a long way to reach it's limitations. Best camera this side of the pro range, magnesium alloy body - tough as boots, nearly every feature you'd expect in a pro model for half the price.

Will come back to you on Olympus cameras WDMIG... gotta go out in a sec - will take the time tomorrow.

[interested]

Out of interest what would you recommend as a good entry level SLR? My wife has been getting quite into photographing our boys and is now a dab hand at cleaning and cropping the photos in Photoshop as well. She has basically hit the limits of our old Sony point and shoot and has been hinting that she would like an SLR for a while.

I'm looking for something that isn't going to cost an arm and a leg (i.e. I don't want to blow £3,000 on the latest uber pro kit) but has most of the bells and whistles. It would be perfect if you can buy add-ons at a later stage as she keeps improving.

Unfortunately I know nothing about cameras

Had a look at a couple of cannons and they seem to get quite good reviews but I have no idea what i'm looking for really.

I just got a Nikon D40X for about £399 or so, and another lens for about £300. I know bugger all about cameras but I've been impressed with the pics so far. I'm going to do a few lessons/course soonish

[where did my id go?]

Will come back to you on Olympus cameras WDMIG... gotta go out in a sec - will take the time tomorrow.

Thanks RH
I'd appreciate it.

BTW for anyone else - there is apparently a review of entry level dSLRs in this months issue of Amateur photographer.

I'm going to look in Smiths later to pick up a copy.

[EvilWeevil]

What's important to consider when buying an SLR is not the body but the lenses - so I'd go for a Canon or a Nikon for the amount of choice available. If you have any modern film SLR Canon (EF) or Nikon lenses already, then go for the same brand.

I have a Canon myself - they've just released a 450D so you might get some good deals on a 400d - so I can't really comment on the Nikon kit, but the principles remain the same

Bear in mind that any lenses that come with the camera are going to be at the adequate end of the quality range - If you had say, a grand to spend, then I think it would be better spent on a 400d/450d and a couple of slightly better lenses, opposed to a 40d and a cheap lens. What kind of lens you need depends on your subject matter, but for general purpose shooting, the Canon 28-135 IS lens is a pretty good starting point at around £250.

Your missus would probably find the 3K SLRs too heavy and unfriendly anyway.

[realityhack]

there is apparently a review of entry level dSLRs in this months issue of Amateur photographer.

Good tip. Don't get blinded by simply comparing the figures though - a higher MP rating doesn't necessarily mean a better picture.

Ok, DSLRs... my take on the types out there...


The Gimmick
The Gimmick is a dressed-up compact that either looks a bit like an SLR, or has a handful of SLR features. This, IMO, is a bit like buying a supercar with a Peugot engine, or modding a Nova with bits from a Ferrari - it's inconsistent, and once you get a taste for the more advanced features you'll be quickly frustrated, as you'll already have hit the limits of that bit of kit, possibly within a week. Eventually, after having bought all the accessories, you realise that the only sensible way to upgrade is to buy a whole new system.

Gimmicks are useful for: The holiday snapper who wants to impress people and take high quality snapshots.
Gimmicks annoy: The holiday snapper, who, having toyed with the labyrinth of settings absent-mindedly for a while, wishes he/she had bought the lighter, smaller camera that does the job just as well (i.e. should have bought a compact).
Typically: £250-£350
Good example: Fujifilm FinePix S8000fd - faff, faff, faffery.

The Argos Special
The Argos Special is typically a stripped-down plastic copy of one of the big pro SLRs (think Olympus, Nikon, Canon, Minolta) with a fraction of the features, often mistakenly referred to as 'entry level'. You'll buy one of these and be able to fit most lenses in the maker's range - or if it's a Nikon or Canon, many 3rd party lenses - which will perform adequately (and cost far more than the camera body). The Argos Special is ideal for your first camera if you want to cheat and use the automatic settings, and aren't bothered about tasking yourself too much. If you buy one of these, try to buy one that allows you full manual control, the widest shutter speed range possible, and RAW image capture.

The Argos Special is useful for: Holidays, the family, for getting a taste for the SLR experience without having to lug a kilo of equipment around and without worrying about it breaking - as it's cheap to replace.
The Argos Special annoys: Someone who thinks he/she's buying a real, entry level SLR and tries-and-fails to use the techniques in the magazines because the features are limited.
Typically: £300-£500
Good example: Nikon D40 - brilliant value for money.

The Serious Amateur
The Serious Amateur is a bottom-of-the-range pro SLR, correctly referred to as 'entry level'. The Serious Amateur will often benefit from more features than you can shake a stick at, fully manual settings, the pro build-quality, compatibility with the (expensive) pro accessories, and excellent optics. The Serious Amateur is normally heavier, bigger and tougher than any of the above. The Serious Amateur will take about 3-5 months to get used to, and years to master. Unless you are a jobbing professional photographer, The Serious Amateur will suit all your needs for its lifetime. If buying, the quality of the optics and the CCD, and full manual control/widest shutter-speed range (pref bulb-8k), and focusing speed is paramount. Also - watch for depth-of-field preview, precise spot metering (small spot size) and a close min focal distance with a standard lens.

The Serious Amateur is useful for: Pretty much anything.
The Serious Amateur annoys: Semi-pros and pros who brought this one out instead of their workhorse as it's marginally lighter, also annoys wife/partner of person using this conspicuous, large camera on a holiday, pretending to be a pro and forgetting to enjoy the scenery with his/her eyes once in a while.
Typically: £900-£1,500
Good Example: Canon EOS 40D - Ideal

The Puppy's Particulars
The Puppy's Particulars is what you or I would call overkill unless we did this for a living. The Puppy's Particulars are usually slung over the shoulders of burly men nudging you out of the way at sports events, usually with a 4km mirror lens about the size of Saturn 5, smacking into people. These men are burly, and usually men, as this kit is heavy, really heavy.
If asked nicely, The Puppy's Particulars will brew you a cup of loose leaf Assam tea, read your paper and wash the dishes while burning film or memory at 500 frames-per-second. They can be switched to auto as with any DSLR - so even the most catatonic Sun Pap can blindly click away while scratching his balls, or fully manual - requiring a PHD in astrophysics and several assistants to operate. Some Puppy's Particulars are so tough they've been run over by tanks and survived. Often the only thing left intact in a mortar crater.

The Puppy's Particulars are useful for: Pro photography, particularly sports or photojournalism.
The Puppy's Particulars annoy: Someone who lashed out a tonne of cash on it and will rarely, if ever, realise it's full potential, and who is sick of the weight of the camera and all the accessories.
Typically: Make up a figure, and double it.
Good example: Canon EOS 1Ds Mark III - Hectic


Lenses
Fixed: 28mm (wide), 50mm (standard), and 90mm (portrait) equivalent 35mm focal length lenses are the most common. Fixed lenses are usually sharper and brighter and faster to focus. Fixed long lenses (300mm and the like) are faster than lenses with a focal range (telephoto).
Telephotos: 35-210mm equivalent focal length is typical.

Buy the lenses with the widest aperture (2.8 or below - large telephoto lenses may start at 5.6) and from a recognised manufacturer - take note: Canon (Canon EF) - fast focusing, wide apertures, large range, expensive; Nikon (Nikkor) - excellent optics, faster focusing, and very expensive; Olympus (Zuiko) - sluggish focusing except the top range; Leica - excellent optics, ok focus speed, expensive.

I'd just like to add: If you're buying a DSLR - don't rely on that silly little pop-up flash - it doesn't cut it, and leaves shadows. Buy a proper flash with corresponding focal range for your needs. My Canon Speedlight (Around £300) is perfect for most applications. Remember to get a sync cable for off-camera portrait or studio work, and a diffuser (good models have this built-in).

[TheFaQQer]

Good tip. Don't get blinded by simply comparing the figures though - a higher MP rating doesn't necessarily mean a better picture.

Ok, DSLRs... my take on the types out there...

<snip>

Great overview - thanks!

I'm always tempted to buy the latest Canon offering, but so far have managed to stop myself.