.NET Tiers

[jmo21]

yep, plenty of places won't let you use open source, simply because if its free, they don't have a company to blame if something happens with it

I also remember Codesmith being proposed at one place, and one of the devs saying "why would i want to use something from a company i've never heard of"

[lambrini_socialist]

I think any open source project should offer a paid for option for these stupid companies.

depending on the terms of the open source license, perhaps you can "add some value" and then sell it to them yourself? for instance, charge them two grand for Nhibernate (free) with a lovely printed manual (two grand).

[FSM with Cheddar]

Yeah I had the same hassle with my current gig. When I told them it would save at least a weeks worth of work (on a 9 week project) by using subsonic instead of hand crafting they soon said ok.

Some companies hate open source just because they can’t spend any money on it. I wanted to use bugzilla for tracking issues etc, but the company wanted to buy something instead. I think any open source project should offer a paid for option for these stupid companies.

[lambrini_socialist]

Subsonic wraps stored procs nicely. It can also run on top of Enterprise Library
It is also kind of sponsored by Microsoft i.e. they now employ the bloke that kicked it of.
It is also open source, so there are no problems in fixing any problems, or worrying about it being dropped.

good call!

although i wonder if an MSFT-only, sproc-only shop will allow open source into their building. you know the sort....

[FSM with Cheddar]

Subsonic wraps stored procs nicely. It can also run on top of Enterprise Library
It is also kind of sponsored by Microsoft i.e. they now employ the bloke that kicked it of.
It is also open source, so there are no problems in fixing any problems, or worrying about it being dropped.

[lambrini_socialist]

ClientCo insists on stored procedures and MS only

that's grim.

[Jaws]

ClientCo insists on stored procedures and MS only (and .NET 2.0), in fact some of the standards suggest that all projects should make use of MS Enterprise library. I've been told that we should be able to make use of code generation (from third party templates). Unfortunately, the SP/MS limitations here count out most of your suggestions lambrini.

For the previous project I produced some codesmith templates supporting a variety of features found in NHibernate (lazy loading, persistence ignorance, value objects and a variety of relationships) although these are not polished and I'd like to avoid going back to update these templates if at all possible. I find the whole process of creating templates painfully tedious considering all the manual testing involved.

[voodooflux]

immature, overly complicated, no persistence ignorance, no implicit lazy-loading, universally loathed by anyone with real O/RM experience....need i go on? version 2 looks like it may be better though.

if you get all your technical advice from microsoft's marketing department, use it. otherwise, use something tried and tested, that's my advice!

That'll be another panning then. Cheers for the heads up on version 2.0 - that'll give me something to research while I wait for the ClientCo Christmas party to commence.

[lambrini_socialist]

I've heard many reports panning the Entity Framework - what's your verdict on it?

immature, overly complicated, no persistence ignorance, no implicit lazy-loading, universally loathed by anyone with real O/RM experience....need i go on? version 2 looks like it may be better though.

if you get all your technical advice from microsoft's marketing department, use it. otherwise, use something tried and tested, that's my advice!

[voodooflux]

LINQ is oldskool. Try looking at beta/new projects which build on linq e.q. ADO.NET Entities and Dynamic Data. Having said that, XLINQ is the best XML query tool I've used (far better and more maintainable than XPATH). If you have to use XPATH, grab the Firefox extension which lets you validate XPATH expressions.

Isn't it specifically LINQ to SQL that is being dropped?

I think the OP was after a solution compatible with .NET 2.0 - does the Entity Framework support that?

I've heard many reports panning the Entity Framework - what's your verdict on it?

[eyetie]

Look into Linq
TM

LINQ is oldskool. Try looking at beta/new projects which build on linq e.q. ADO.NET Entities and Dynamic Data. Having said that, XLINQ is the best XML query tool I've used (far better and more maintainable than XPATH). If you have to use XPATH, grab the Firefox extension which lets you validate XPATH expressions.

[themistry]

Look into Linq


TM

[lambrini_socialist]

there are loads of options - look at LLBLGen Pro, SubSonic (free) and Codesmith. if you don't like having loads of generated code around, look at NHibernate (my preferred option) and maybe Castle ActiveRecord. but for goodness sake don't hand code ADO.NET for run-of-the-mill apps: this is 2008! data access layers are a solved problem in this day and age, and writing them by hand is a colossal and bug-prone waste of your client's money. just pick an off-the-shelf tool, learn it, then deliver some business value.

[scotspine]

it *does* produce a lot of code and there are those who would say that what it produces is practically bloatware. fine if you need/want it all i guess. there are a lot of other generators/templates out there. for example

http://www.mygenerationsoftware.com/portal/default.aspx

like all of these things, scratch around with the generated code and make sure you understand what it is claiming to do. almost all of them will still require you to open the bonnet and go in and hand code after generation.

[Jaws]

I've been having a look at this lately (for .NET 2.0) and it does appear to be quite a time saver. Current ClientCo insists on using stored procedures for all data access but they would like to move towards an nTier architecture for future apps.

Does anyone have any experience using this or have had any problems with it in a production environment? Or has any other recommendations for similar products that support generation of stored procedures for data access?