Reply to: HMRC contractors all Inside(Blanket Approach)

[SussexSeagull]

Oh great, more contractors coming onto the market in the south east.

[MeMeMe1966]

A few more of these trickling through as HR departments have become involved......

Coupled with a complete lack of understanding about what an Office Holder is, an interesting week.

You must have access to shed-loads of data on how PSBs are handling this:

1) blanket inside
2) blanket outside
3) case-by-case (most inside)
4) case-by-case (most outside)
5) head-in-sand no response

I'd love to understand the percentages..... maybe in your next linkedin article?

[Andy Hallett]

A few more of these trickling through as HR departments have become involved......

Coupled with a complete lack of understanding about what an Office Holder is, an interesting week.

[DotasScandal]

If you are an IPSE member then I would contact the policy team there - this is exactly the kind of example that contractors should be shouting about everywhere. HMRC are ignoring the "reasonable care" provisions and not providing a mechanism for appeal which was always in the details of how this should work.

If IPSE is supposed to be our loudspeaker...God help us!

[TheFaQQer]

I have completed the tool and forwarded my responses to the agency. Looks like all this is going to be a formal thing and the decision seems to be unchallangable.

If you are an IPSE member then I would contact the policy team there - this is exactly the kind of example that contractors should be shouting about everywhere. HMRC are ignoring the "reasonable care" provisions and not providing a mechanism for appeal which was always in the details of how this should work.

[DotasScandal]

It was my understanding, that following the publication of the Finance Bill last week that the reasonable care clause had been introduced to protect contractors from such blanket approaches

Welcome to our world.
For the record, you may like to know the APN legislation featured similar "reasonable care" prerequisites. That didn't prevent HMRC from adopting a "one size fits all" approach, and issuing APNs based on wild calculation models (calibrated to maximize the "tax take"!) rather than actual figures THAT THEY HAD.
That is to name only one irregularity of a great many
Why?
Because they can!
Because there is little, indeed no consequence at all, for them not complying with the legislation.

[Rao]

It was my understanding, that following the publication of the Finance Bill last week that the reasonable care clause had been introduced to protect contractors from such blanket approaches. When did HMRC declare this, OP?

After the changes to legislation(Reasonable care clause), they declared it to me and few others last thursday(23rd March)

[KUWTC]

It was my understanding, that following the publication of the Finance Bill last week that the reasonable care clause had been introduced to protect contractors from such blanket approaches. When did HMRC declare this, OP?

[Rao]

Hello,

If you have been judged, in your opinion unfairly to be inside the new public sector off payroll rules then you should:

a) complete the ESS tool yourself answering all question honestly and fully.
b) approach the PSB with the results and formally request that they take reasonable steps to evaluate your engagement in relation to section 10.

They will then have 31 days to respond and if they do not then they risk becoming the fee payer in the chain with all the responsibilities that go with it. They do have a responsibility to take reasonable steps to assess your status and not just use a risk-based blanket approach.

I have completed the tool and forwarded my responses to the agency. Looks like all this is going to be a formal thing and the decision seems to be unchallangable.

[Rao]

Correct. If anyone is going to give you an inside statement you'd expect it to be HMRC to be fair.

What's in your current contract is pretty irrelevant at this point. Exactly when did the make this declaration. 2 weeks away is cutting it very fine.

For example:
To a question in the tool who bares faulty work expenses, client completed the tool answering '" In scheduled hours at regular day rate" which is otherwise in contract. In contract it says consultant should correct the work in his time without any expenses to client or agency.

[LondonManc]

Right of substitution is only one of the factors that can put you outside IR35. I have a contractual right to substitution but both the client and I agreed that it would be highly unlikely to be enacted due to the specialist nature of my work. We completed the tool together and answered "No" to substitution but still arrived at an outside determination based on other factors.

I'm not sure a single policy could put all contractors at an organisation inside because it isn't looking at SDC, MoO, Financial risk, etc.?

New to HMRC?

[MeMeMe1966]

"Reasonable Care" is a worthless ammendment, as they can still make a blanket decision of not allowing substitution and end up with the same result for the majority of their contractors.

Right of substitution is only one of the factors that can put you outside IR35. I have a contractual right to substitution but both the client and I agreed that it would be highly unlikely to be enacted due to the specialist nature of my work. We completed the tool together and answered "No" to substitution but still arrived at an outside determination based on other factors.

I'm not sure a single policy could put all contractors at an organisation inside because it isn't looking at SDC, MoO, Financial risk, etc.?

[TonyR]

"Reasonable Care" is a worthless ammendment, as they can still make a blanket decision of not allowing substitution and end up with the same result for the majority of their contractors.

[Andy Hallett]

Good to see HMRC demonstrating 'reasonable care'......

[TheFaQQer]

The consultations and communications from HMG have always emphasised that there will be a right of appeal. Anyone who receives an assessment that they disagree with should ask the client to provide evidence that they have not breached their duty of care (as defined in the legislation), whether they used ESS to determine the status, and if so what answers were provided to the questions. You should also ask the client what the avenue for appeal is.

See FAQ post 2.