Reply to: WARNING: DO NOT SETTLE UNDER CLSO2 re. 2019 Loan Charge

[DeadDOTAS]

Stealing this from someone on Twitter:

DO NOT TRUST HMRC!
DO NOT PAY HRMC tax not owed!
DO NOT SETTLE!
DO NOT ANSWER PHONE CALLS (LETTERS ONLY).

DO NOT PANIC! (they do apparently)
DO YOUR SAR REQUEST (so that they crumble).
DO NOT EVER GIVE UP!

THE RULE OF LAW & KARMA IS ON OUR SIDE!
KEEP FIGHTING - THEY WILL LOSE!

[Iter]

If you say they inc IHT in your settlement, (and was paid then I assume) how could they request it again? Or was the 2nd time by mistake and from a different dept within HMRC? I know they have trouble communication with each other

[HMRC made Atlas Shrug]

Not that bad

Life is not that bad if you do decide to step out from under the -s working at HMRC's grubby hands.

When I saw how the psychopaths and sociopaths working at HMRC were operating like the mafia ignoring law, I decided unless people wake up and vote to change the system, HMRC is going to win because they have the British propaganda media on their side and all our money to fight us with. Public opinion (voters) is by far mostly still against people like us i.e. we are scr*wed.

I settled on HMRC's terms but even after they included IHT in their settlement, they still tried to come after me for IHT after I settled and paid up on HMRC's settlement agreement. It hammered my (pension) savings. I was so stressed and pissed off at the whole corrupt system that I decided for my own sanity to step outside. Now instead of me contributing lots of tax to HMRC every month, I've now for years paid hardly any tax because I'm earning hardly anything, sometimes nothing. As a bonus, my blood pressure went down!

The reason I could do this is because I do not have debt. I adjusted my living standard down a bit but to be honest, I am happy and enjoying life. No stress compared to when I was contracting and I am extremely happy that I am not propping up the buggers at HMRC any more. When . . . . if I run out of money before I go to feed worms, guess what, the state can look after me.

One thing that I will now always do is to vote against whatever the "system" (bureaucrats) tell me is good for me (but really only good for them when you look into it !!!). I have more free time now to follow people and programs not part of the main propaganda media, you people will be shocked at how you are being manipulated and lied to. Just one example, find out for yourself what is really going on inside the EU on a political, economic or social level. Nuff said.

But back to my point, life can be enjoyable not propping up this broken corrupt system. I now have time to enjoy life.

OK off to do a bit of DIY . . . . . hmmm the good life.

[demby]

Thank you to all for the replies and input.

My plan:

1. No settlement
2. Wait for LC to be imposed
3. Do nothing until January 2020
4. Let them spend tax payers money coming after me for money I don’t have.
5. Let contract wind down.
6. Get minimum pay crap job, or go on Job Seekers Allowence.
7. Deprive HMRC and the government of the Vat/Corporation Tax and suchlike I pay because I will no longer be contracting with my own LTD company.
8. Because I will be on the minimum wage or Jobseekers, I will offer them £10 per month.
9. Get the HMRC to cover my NI etc, etc, etc.....

Well done Mel Stride and his cronies at HMRC, I will cost you, you will get nothing but a very small token from me and I may end up being a burden on the state!

Swigging cheap cider and watching Jeremy Kyle in my social housing beckons..... what a winning policy all round from the authorities that will force me to do this!

As I said, I would rather do time than buckle, give in and submit to this lot.

On the plus side, if I did end up in ‘chokey’ I would have a roof over my head, 3 meals a day, no bills and as much sex as I can handle!!!!

Cheers folks!

Apart from the 'ckokey' bit - this is a plan I intend to follow as well

[Wizards Sleeve]

Thanks All....

Thank you to all for the replies and input.

My plan:

1. No settlement
2. Wait for LC to be imposed
3. Do nothing until January 2020
4. Let them spend tax payers money coming after me for money I don’t have.
5. Let contract wind down.
6. Get minimum pay crap job, or go on Job Seekers Allowence.
7. Deprive HMRC and the government of the Vat/Corporation Tax and suchlike I pay because I will no longer be contracting with my own LTD company.
8. Because I will be on the minimum wage or Jobseekers, I will offer them £10 per month.
9. Get the HMRC to cover my NI etc, etc, etc.....

Well done Mel Stride and his cronies at HMRC, I will cost you, you will get nothing but a very small token from me and I may end up being a burden on the state!

Swigging cheap cider and watching Jeremy Kyle in my social housing beckons..... what a winning policy all round from the authorities that will force me to do this!

As I said, I would rather do time than buckle, give in and submit to this lot.

On the plus side, if I did end up in ‘chokey’ I would have a roof over my head, 3 meals a day, no bills and as much sex as I can handle!!!!

Cheers folks!

[wilks]

FFS. Shoot me now!

And IHT.

[demby]

No, ALL open years still have the underlying tax dispute to resolve. Your APN’s paid will have been minus any interest. Should HMRC eventually pursue and defeat your open years in court at a later date, they WILL come back for the interest on those open years.

FFS. Shoot me now!

[regron]

Oh I see - However, in my case APNs already exhorted will cover the open years

No, ALL open years still have the underlying tax dispute to resolve. Your APN’s paid will have been minus any interest. Should HMRC eventually pursue and defeat your open years in court at a later date, they WILL come back for the interest on those open years.

[demby]

Yes but he/she hasn't got any money. When HMRC issue a demand for the LC, he/she won't be able to pay. The only action available to HMRC would be to petition for bankruptcy.

Any open years would still remain open.

As I said, in theory, HMRC could bankrupt someone over the LC and then come back several years later to pursue the open years. Personally, I think it's very unlikely they would do that but there is a theoretical risk.

PS. paying the LC doesn't close open years

Oh I see - However, in my case APNs already exhorted will cover the open years

[stonehenge]

I don't follow - surely if you end up paying the LC it will be on all open & closed years. All loans added and taxed. How can they then come back for the OPEN years??

Yes but he/she hasn't got any money. When HMRC issue a demand for the LC, he/she won't be able to pay. The only action available to HMRC would be to petition for bankruptcy.

Any open years would still remain open.

As I said, in theory, HMRC could bankrupt someone over the LC and then come back several years later to pursue the open years. Personally, I think it's very unlikely they would do that but there is a theoretical risk.

PS. paying the LC doesn't close open years

[demby]

The problem with going down the loan charge route is it doesn't finalise matters. It still leaves any open tax years* with an unresolved dispute.

In theory, HMRC could bankrupt you over the loan charge and then, at some later date, pursue you for those open tax years.

Do you follow?

* open tax years are ones where HMRC
a) has opened an enquiry or
b) has raised an assessment or
c) is still within the time limits to do (a) or (b)

I don't follow - surely if you end up paying the LC it will be on all open & closed years. All loans added and taxed. How can they then come back for the OPEN years??

[sst2019]

Sorry to hear of your troubles.

Perhaps writing to your local member of parliament?
It might be worth seeking some support, if nothing to demonstrably show it is causing you distress and sleepless nights. The GP, if you can get an appointment and or LCAG?

I cannot see the difference between slavery in the traditional sense or that by which you have stated in your post.

.....
This whole saga has made me re-think life a little; I am just sick of working hard for nothing, the commute into London, long hours, the stress, the VAT, Accountants fees, business insurances, Corporation Tax and all the grief from trying to earn as a contractor with a Ltd company. As I say, I don't know if it is a good idea but I am in despair with it all and they cant take what I don't have, not now in settling and not in the future when they come knocking?
.......

It may be worth some publicity via the LCAG.
HMRC while they profess not wanting to pursue bankruptcy, this itself is a fallacy given this http://financeandtax.decisions.tribu...92/TC07029.pdf
https://www.contractoruk.com/forums/...tradicted.html

If wanting to be even more inflammatory, why not sincerely offer HMRC a live organ donation... that literally is the only asset you have that has any monetary value.

[stonehenge]

Thanks again Stonehenge.

No problem.

Are you intending to comply with the loan charge, ie. provide the loan info by 30 Sept and then declare them on your 2018/19 self-assessment?

Even if you don't comply, and they eventually catch up with you and slap you with penalties, it won't make much difference if you haven't got any money. Btw, I'm not advocating that you do this but I wouldn't blame you if you did.

[Wizards Sleeve]

The problem with going down the loan charge route is it doesn't finalise matters. It still leaves any open tax years* with an unresolved dispute.

In theory, HMRC could bankrupt you over the loan charge and then, at some later date, pursue you for those open tax years.

Do you follow?

* open tax years are ones where HMRC
a) has opened an enquiry or
b) has raised an assessment or
c) is still within the time limits to do (a) or (b)

Thanks again Stonehenge.

I am aware of this, and Its a minimum wage job for me from January 2020 on (or when they do me)...... push trolleys around a super market car park or something in future and offer them £10 per month until I drop of this mortal coil?

This whole saga has made me re-think life a little; I am just sick of working hard for nothing, the commute into London, long hours, the stress, the VAT, Accountants fees, business insurances, Corporation Tax and all the grief from trying to earn as a contractor with a Ltd company. As I say, I don't know if it is a good idea but I am in despair with it all and they cant take what I don't have, not now in settling and not in the future when they come knocking?

I am also an awkward 'so and so', it may be bad for me in future, but I do feel a little 'morally smug' not signing up and settling with them..... as a bit of last act of defiance before being skint for the rest of my life

[stonehenge]

Hi Stonehenge, thanks for the reply. Yes, I have considered bankruptcy, but why should I pay for the process? If I cant pay what HMRC want now, I wont be able to pay later. I am considering putting the ball in HMRC's court, they can petition and they can shut me down if they wish.

Like I say, I have nothing to lose...... I despair of it all!

The problem with going down the loan charge route is it doesn't finalise matters. It still leaves any open tax years* with an unresolved dispute.

In theory, HMRC could bankrupt you over the loan charge and then, at some later date, pursue you for those open tax years.

Do you follow?

* open tax years are ones where HMRC
a) has opened an enquiry or
b) has raised an assessment or
c) is still within the time limits to do (a) or (b)