Reply to: Contemplating - Indefinite Hunger Strike against Government

[BattleCry]

The only way to fight is with lawyers and courts. (Which is exactly what we're doing in NTRT. Our members stumped up £0.5M to take the bastards on.)

Grand gestures, demos, publicity stunts will get you nowhere when 99.999% of the population are against you.

Tax avoiders are public enemy #1 at the moment.

Problem is NTRT is closed to new members?

[BrilloPad]

and still without a penny back from the APN..or what happened to it all..

No-one should pay a penny to the original scheme provider or to HMRC. Ever.

Only put your money towards a REPUTABLE organization seeking legal action. BIG group is a very good example.

[bstar1]

NTRT started in 2008 for 8 years now. No realistic end within 6 years - and that is optimistic.

I only expect this to be over when I die.

and still without a penny back from the APN..or what happened to it all..

[DotasScandal]

Just been reading this thread - I completely sympathise with Strengthinnumber's situation and echo the thoughts of webberg in getting some help. This situation can completely change how you think about life. When I got my first letter I thought it was the end of my life and two days later I was seconds away from taking my life at the local train station. Thankfully I didnt and slowly but surely I have been able to move on with my life. But you need help from your family, friends (if you can confide in them) and also counselling in order to get to grips with the situation, understand the reality and devise a plan of action in order to move on. Easy to say and harder to do I know but getting support from others helps so much.

What doesn't kill you makes you stronger. It's a cliche but if I look around I see many people that were quite tame at the beginning of all of this, and who are now totally enraged and determined to fight this BS to the bitter end (especially following the stunt in Budget 2016).
The first APN will knock you down. Then you'll get up.
By the fifth or sixth one, you'll just laugh.
It is true that the silly, surrealist nature of it all makes one look at a whole lot of things from a different perspective. It is probably for the better.
Everyone, please don't forget that you have psychological manipulation experts (Behavioural Instincts Ltd., a private contractor) devising methods to, literally, make you go crazy, until you submit.
Keep that in mind when you feel like the world is falling apart: you are just being played, subject to a psychological warfare operation run by professionals.
HMRC knows well that contractors are, by definition, people who like to "do their own thing" and do not easily seek support from others. They hope that a large percentage will not be able to bear it for much longer.
But it is a huge gamble they are making.
Don't fall into that trap. Seek all the support your can find (this can also be a good occasion to sort out your real friends from the others)
The "2019" stunt is the biggest gamble of all, and, in a way, HMRC is betting the house on it.
There is no guarantee at all that this bet will pay off.
For the record, I do not believe in "ignore what you can't change". Go tell that to Gandhi, Mandela, and the rest, and see what happens. The definition of what can and cannot be changed (doesn't matter if it's small or big things) exists only in your own mind .

[StrengthInNumbers]

I hope more are more determined than me. I am one of lucky ones - I can pay off all as I was able to get a good opportunity and work on 2x+ my normal day rate. When I am at work I am busy and ok. But in free time I cannot come to terms with us been victims from all sides - HMRC and Promoters.

Behind the head I know what goes by comes by and people doing this will have to go through their own pain but still I really want to something to make a difference to this situation.

[DotasScandal]

We are VICTIMS.

Many have little sympathy of this statement, but as you stated Turnover, we have been sold into these schemes by professional advisers, who took their commission. You sense at times there is more compassion shown to serious offenders then people like us, who have simply made a dreadful decision after listening to smooth talking professionals. Do you think for one moment we would have gone into this if we knew what was to unfold? Of course not.

In fact, I considered Dotas Victims as a website name first.
We're in the usual situation: not rich enough to benefit from the protections reserved for the 1%, not poor enough (in the public perception - and perception IS often reality) to be sorry for.
If we were violent criminals. there would be people to find us all sorts of excuses to explain how we became that way, and we'd find many advocates.
When you are just an average Joe trying to make a living and support a family, it's just not so interesting for the Human Rights QCs and for the media.

[DotasScandal]

No a single soul wants to fight this come may what? As a society we all have decided not to revolt whatever elected class does?

StrengthInNumbers, please believe me: there are many others as determined as you are.
There are many things happening away from screens, which will be revealed in time.
(Of course, we're not gonna tell all about it on here to our good friends in HMRC - we don't like to spoil a surprise)

[BrilloPad]

Your life is worth more than this impending tax position which may last 2/3/5/10 years but which will eventually be over.

NTRT started in 2008 for 8 years now. No realistic end within 6 years - and that is optimistic.

I only expect this to be over when I die.

[webberg]

I'm going to throw in a couple of thoughts.

Your life is worth more than this impending tax position which may last 2/3/5/10 years but which will eventually be over.

Perspective is important as is a sense of time.

Secondly, when we put Big Group together we looked around at the situation.

One key element that we felt was missing was people actually being told the truth.

We know from other schemes that knowing and handling the real situation is a key element in individuals finding the strength to deal with some of the sh*t that is generated.

Controlling what you can, seeking advice on what you can't, perspective and proportionality, realistic expectations and a healthy dose of scepticism make dealing with this a (little) easier.

[turnover]

We are VICTIMS.

Many have little sympathy of this statement, but as you stated Turnover, we have been sold into these schemes by professional advisers, who took their commission. You sense at times there is more compassion shown to serious offenders then people like us, who have simply made a dreadful decision after listening to smooth talking professionals. Do you think for one moment we would have gone into this if we knew what was to unfold? Of course not.

Completely agree - which makes the headlines around Osborne/Cameron and other world leaders hard to take as you know the Establishment takes care of its own and nothing will happen.

[DonkeyRhubarb]

That's probably why you hear very little from HMG/HMRC on the promoters.

They want US to be seen as the bad guys, not in any way, shape or form, victims.

Ask someone in the street and they probably think we dreamed up these scams on our own.

[LandRover]

Just been reading this thread - I completely sympathise with Strengthinnumber's situation and echo the thoughts of webberg in getting some help. This situation can completely change how you think about life. When I got my first letter I thought it was the end of my life and two days later I was seconds away from taking my life at the local train station. Thankfully I didnt and slowly but surely I have been able to move on with my life. But you need help from your family, friends (if you can confide in them) and also counselling in order to get to grips with the situation, understand the reality and devise a plan of action in order to move on. Easy to say and harder to do I know but getting support from others helps so much.

The fact is as webberg has stated the government need money and look for easy targets which means us. Therefore we all need to try and accept the reality of this and whereever possible devise a plan which I know is easier said than done. Bu there are avenues such as Big Group who can help with a clear strategy to minimise the impact but also state a reality of your situation. Only then can you start to come to terms and try and get some form of piece of mind. On a personal level the situation highlights the unfair treatment from HMRC on the basis of 1 mistake/misjudgement based on advice given by people who we trusted. As aa result it makes you think how undemocratic this country is (I know lots of you will say 'it never was democratic'!) and how absolutely useless our politcians are. Everyone impacted by this are decent people who are only asked to be treated fairly in order to rid themselves of this appalling and stressful situation. As a result of 1 mistake many people have had their lives changes forever. That cannot be fair. Most if not all people that i know impacted by this or who have posted are just looking for an element of reasonable behaviour from HMRC.

Good luck to everyone who is going through their own situation - I'm sure all of us will eventually get through this - scarred from it maybe but one day it will end.

We are VICTIMS.

Many have little sympathy of this statement, but as you stated Turnover, we have been sold into these schemes by professional advisers, who took their commission. You sense at times there is more compassion shown to serious offenders then people like us, who have simply made a dreadful decision after listening to smooth talking professionals. Do you think for one moment we would have gone into this if we knew what was to unfold? Of course not.

[turnover]

Just been reading this thread - I completely sympathise with Strengthinnumber's situation and echo the thoughts of webberg in getting some help. This situation can completely change how you think about life. When I got my first letter I thought it was the end of my life and two days later I was seconds away from taking my life at the local train station. Thankfully I didnt and slowly but surely I have been able to move on with my life. But you need help from your family, friends (if you can confide in them) and also counselling in order to get to grips with the situation, understand the reality and devise a plan of action in order to move on. Easy to say and harder to do I know but getting support from others helps so much.

The fact is as webberg has stated the government need money and look for easy targets which means us. Therefore we all need to try and accept the reality of this and whereever possible devise a plan which I know is easier said than done. Bu there are avenues such as Big Group who can help with a clear strategy to minimise the impact but also state a reality of your situation. Only then can you start to come to terms and try and get some form of piece of mind. On a personal level the situation highlights the unfair treatment from HMRC on the basis of 1 mistake/misjudgement based on advice given by people who we trusted. As aa result it makes you think how undemocratic this country is (I know lots of you will say 'it never was democratic'!) and how absolutely useless our politcians are. Everyone impacted by this are decent people who are only asked to be treated fairly in order to rid themselves of this appalling and stressful situation. As a result of 1 mistake many people have had their lives changes forever. That cannot be fair. Most if not all people that i know impacted by this or who have posted are just looking for an element of reasonable behaviour from HMRC.

Good luck to everyone who is going through their own situation - I'm sure all of us will eventually get through this - scarred from it maybe but one day it will end.

[DonkeyRhubarb]

The only way to fight is with lawyers and courts. (Which is exactly what we're doing in NTRT. Our members stumped up £0.5M to take the bastards on.)

Grand gestures, demos, publicity stunts will get you nowhere when 99.999% of the population are against you.

Tax avoiders are public enemy #1 at the moment.

[StrengthInNumbers]

I get all that discussed above. But I simple question WHAT R WE DOING ABOUT IT? Sit and type on screens and join groups? That's it

No a single soul wants to fight this come may what? As a society we all have decided not to revolt whatever elected class does?