Reply to: I am so fed up

[Phoenix]

You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I tell you: Love your enemies[ and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Matthew 5 43-48

So according to Matthew...Your quote not mine.You are wrong in your attitude toward Muslims.

Next

[darmstadt]

Deuteronomy 17 - If there is anyone, man or woman, among you in any of the towns given to you by Yahweh your God, who does what is wrong in the eyes of Yahweh your God by violating his covenant, who goes and serves other gods and worships them, or the sun or the moon or any of heaven's array - a thing I have forbidden - and this person is denounced to you: if after careful enquiry it is found true and confirmed that this hateful thing has been done in Israel, you must take the man or woman guilty of this evil deed outside your city gates, and there you must stone that man or woman to death.

Deuteronomy 17

1 Thou shalt not sacrifice unto Jehovah thy God an ox, or a sheep, wherein is a blemish, or anything evil; for that is an abomination unto Jehovah thy God.

2 If there be found in the midst of thee, within any of thy gates which Jehovah thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that doeth that which is evil in the sight of Jehovah thy God, in transgressing his covenant,

3 and hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, or the sun, or the moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded;

4 and it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, then shalt thou inquire diligently; and, behold, if it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel,

5 then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, who hath done this evil thing, unto thy gates, even the man or the woman; and thou shalt stone them to death with stones.

6 At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he that is to die be put to death; at the mouth of one witness he shall not be put to death.

7 The hand of the witnesses shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterward the hand of all the people. So thou shalt put away the evil from the midst of thee.

8 If there arise a matter too hard for thee in judgment, between blood and blood, between plea and plea, and between stroke and stroke, being matters of controversy within thy gates; then shalt thou arise, and get thee up unto the place which Jehovah thy God shall choose;

9 and thou shalt come unto the priests the Levites, and unto the judge that shall be in those days: and thou shalt inquire; and they shall show thee the sentence of judgment.

10 And thou shalt do according to the tenor of the sentence which they shall show thee from that place which Jehovah shall choose; and thou shalt observe to do according to all that they shall teach thee:

11 according to the tenor of the law which they shall teach thee, and according to the judgment which they shall tell thee, thou shalt do; thou shalt not turn aside from the sentence which they shall show thee, to the right hand, nor to the left.

12 And the man that doeth presumptuously, in not hearkening unto the priest that standeth to minister there before Jehovah thy God, or unto the judge, even that man shall die: and thou shalt put away the evil from Israel.

13 And all the people shall hear, and fear, and do no more presumptuously.

14 When thou art come unto the land which Jehovah thy God giveth thee, and shalt possess it, and shalt dwell therein, and shalt say, I will set a king over me, like all the nations that are round about me;

15 thou shalt surely set him king over thee, whom Jehovah thy God shall choose: one from among thy brethren shalt thou set king over thee; thou mayest not put a foreigner over thee, who is not thy brother.

16 Only he shall not multiply horses to himself, nor cause the people to return to Egypt, to the end that he may multiply horses; forasmuch as Jehovah hath said unto you, Ye shall henceforth return no more that way.

17 Neither shall he multiply wives to himself, that his heart turn not away: neither shall he greatly multiply to himself silver and gold.

18 And it shall be, when he sitteth upon the throne of his kingdom, that he shall write him a copy of this law in a book, out of that which is before the priests the Levites:

19 and it shall be with him, and he shall read therein all the days of his life; that he may learn to fear Jehovah his God, to keep all the words of this law and these statutes, to do them;

20 that his heart be not lifted up above his brethren, and that he turn not aside from the commandment, to the right hand, or to the left: to the end that he may prolong his days in his kingdom, he and his children, in the midst of Israel.

http://www.secularislam.org/humanrights/compatible.htm

[oraclesmith]

But God's command to wipe out the Amalekites was supposedly to all Gods people and for all eternity. My original point about extrapolated interpretation still stands. Some scholars use references in the Bible and the Quran like this to justify Holy war against their religious enemies. eg. there are some Jewish scholars who align the Amalekites to Arabs and believe that the Holy war is still being waged.

If you put it into a historical context however, it was simply that the Hebrews had had enough of the Amalekite's killing spree and wanted to defeat their enemy totally. In a historical context Gods command is now meaningless because the Hebrew-Amalekite war is long gone. It seems to me that fundamentalists of all religions are trying to get todays people to time-warp back to the context of their favourite historical era - eg. when their scriptures were actually written. eg. the extremist Christians and Muslims alike would be only too happy to live in a Middle East of goat herds and tribes.

[The Lone Gunman]

Really would like to converse further chico, but I have a four o'clock dump in my diary.

You dump in your diary?

Chico: You only asked for an example of the justification of killing non-believers.

As you are in the challenging mood. Quote me the Koran where it says 1. Kill the infidels and 2. That only by doing so in Jihad can a Muslim enter heaven.

[Jabberwocky]

Really would like to converse further chico, but I have a four o'clock dump in my diary.

[CaribbeanPirate]

Are not even the tax collectors doing that?.

Looks like they had troubles back then too.

I'm glad I don't have those problems anymore.

[lORD lUCAN]

That's a little rude. Have more politeness to your Lord, will you?

Im down with that (thought it would never happen), Chico, kiss my ass and if your lucky Andyw might give you fisting aswell

[Chico]

Ok people - biblical education time. The Bible includes biographies, instructions for specific people, prophesies, laws for priests, laws for kings, prayers, etc now to take a commandment that was given to a person say Moses and apply it to the whole world is silly. Some things are applicable to the whole body of believers - say the Ten Commandments, others like the commandment to build a temple was for King Solomon alone. Now lets see what Jesus says to all....

You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I tell you: Love your enemies[ and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Matthew 5 43-48


I wish I could get expostional with you however I have a two and three o clock so I will deal with other issues when I return.

PS. Sasguru - you have your cue to make your inane remarks knowing that I will not be able to respond immediately.

[The Lone Gunman]

He is not hiding, he is franticaly looking for cut and paste answers on his religious websites to refute your points or answer your questions.

[oraclesmith]

Is Chico Hiding Again?

He's probably having his 'belayed' lunch ! Have you noticed he won't be drawn into a discussion on the Millennium. He probably doesn't even know what I'm talking about.

[Jabberwocky]

"If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;" (Deuteronomy 13: 6)

"Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people." (Deuteronomy 13:8-9)

[Phoenix]

Is Chico Hiding Again?

[Jabberwocky]

"Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the LORD in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the LORD. Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves." (Numbers 31:16-18)

[Andyw]

Not one mention of a religious anal fisting day !

[Jabberwocky]

"The righteous shall rejoice when he sees the vengeance. He shall wash his feet in the blood of the wicked." (Psalms 58:10)