Reply to: Pardon for Alan Turing

[suityou01]

If it helps I don't think Turing gives a toss. I certainly don't. He's dead. I know of him for his ground breaking work, and not his private life. This is pretty meaningless for me as I don't think any more of less of him, he's still one of my heroes.

[Sockpuppet]

Better late than never, he was truly great man and it's total sad it had to end like this ...

Agree with this statement.

It does make you think about the others that were convicted, while they may not have been as notable as Turing they were still human beings - its a difficult one. I hope they get a pardon - but where do you stop going back in time pardoning people for what we now consider ok, but at the time was illegal.

[BrilloPad]

So you want a halt to any further WW2 veteran parades?

Stupid 2@. Are you MF in disguise?

Keep the WW2 tributes going until they are all dead.

[Old Greg]

Why is it unusual? There are plenty of laws which don't make sense now which made sense then and vice versa. My extension of this 'minority' based on sexuality only stands to reason you might be standing up for Rolf and Jimmy as wrongly convicted in 50 years.

Retrospection is wrong.

Unusual because it persecuted people for what they were rather than what they did (in essence).

I understand the argument against retrospective law to prosecute. What is the argument against retrospective action against an old injustice?

We shouldn't worry what others may do in 50 years. Let's worry about what we can do now. I think we would view things very differently if the victims of this persecution had been Jewish or miscegenators rather than gay men.

[Old Greg]

I think Alan Turing was a genius. And it upsets me that if he had been let loose the UK could have led the world in computing and telephony.

What was done was very wrong.

But a pardon won't help him now.

Shows how fooked this country is - worrying about events that happened 60 years ago instead of thinking where we could be in 60 years time.

So you want a halt to any further WW2 veteran parades?

[MarillionFan]

This was an unusual persecutory law so needs an unusual response. The only can if worms opened is one of persecution of a minority.

Why is it unusual? There are plenty of laws which don't make sense now which made sense then and vice versa. My extension of this 'minority' based on sexuality only stands to reason you might be standing up for Rolf and Jimmy as wrongly convicted in 50 years.

Retrospection is wrong.

[Old Greg]

Yes it could. I wasn't suggesting it couldn't. I was simly pointing out that an act has recently been used to go some way to attempt to rectify a perceived wrong.

Overturning convictions would open a new bag of worms. But that is a common problem with retrospection.

This was an unusual persecutory law so needs an unusual response. The only can if worms opened is one of persecution of a minority.

[BrilloPad]

I think Alan Turing was a genius. And it upsets me that if he had been let loose the UK could have led the world in computing and telephony.

What was done was very wrong.

But a pardon won't help him now.

Shows how fooked this country is - worrying about events that happened 60 years ago instead of thinking where we could be in 60 years time.

And obviously I think retrospection is wrong in all cases.

[MarillionFan]

This is good news.

A pardon is the best that could be done, as he was homosexual and it was illegal at the time.

Exactly. A law was broken. No pardon required.

[MarillionFan]

No pardon required as at the time he'd broken the law. It's not retrospective FFS. Homosexuality was illegal, he was a practicing homosexual and was prosecuted as according to the law. Going back and pardoning on old laws that are no longer in place is opening a can of worms.

[ASB]

An Act of Parliament could overturn the convictions as opposed to just issue pardons.

Yes it could. I wasn't suggesting it couldn't. I was simly pointing out that an act has recently been used to go some way to attempt to rectify a perceived wrong.

Overturning convictions would open a new bag of worms. But that is a common problem with retrospection.

[Old Greg]

Which is what happened with the armed forces act a few years ago. Pardoned those who had been executed for cowardice.

An Act of Parliament could overturn the convictions as opposed to just issue pardons.

[ASB]

There's no difference, except that it's easier to not speed or to not use cannabis (or anything else for that matter) than it is to not be who you are (and having sex with people you are attracted to is more core to your being, than your choice to smoke etc).

The apparent difference is just because people in general are enlightened enough to see the evil in trying to control people in some ways, but not enough to see it in the other ways yet. Before long prostitution will be legal, and then in turn everything else.

Actually prostitution is legal.

Lots of surrounding activities are not. But that is a different thing.

[ASB]

An Act of Parliament could overturn all convictions under the old Act.

The pardon is obviously welcome nonetheless.

Which is what happened with the armed forces act a few years ago. Pardoned those who had been executed for cowardice.

[SpontaneousOrder]

Define "wrong"? There's nothing wrong IMO with breaking the speed limit when it's safe to do so, or possessing cannabis, to pick two examples. But you could be prosecuted for both of those. If the motorway speed limit was ever raised to 80mph, does that mean anybody who was ever caught at 70-80 would get an apology and their conviction overturned?

There's no difference, except that it's easier to not speed or to not use cannabis (or anything else for that matter) than it is to not be who you are (and having sex with people you are attracted to is more core to your being, than your choice to smoke etc).

The apparent difference is just because people in general are enlightened enough to see the evil in trying to control people in some ways, but not enough to see it in the other ways yet. Before long prostitution will be legal, and then in turn everything else.