Reply to: Hmm. 80 min train journey each way......

[psychocandy]

When we moved from the south to the north, my wife stopped work because she found it impossible to get a teaching job near here. She did some temporary teaching roles, but when you are competing with over 200 people for the same role and not even getting an acknowledgement, it's not easy to find motivation.

We both suffered from depression with the first child (she more than I did), which was an absolute nightmare - I wouldn't wish what we were feeling on anyone. In the end, I left my consultancy position after that first year, and took a poorly paid, local permie role just to get some time at home. Ironically, that led me to being a contractor - I saw how crap the competition were and thought "I can do that!"

In this case, her illness is physical (some sort of arthritis or something). Looking like it may be chronic. As you can imagine, makes things difficult. Shes on maternity at the moment but can't see going back to her normal job (as a nurse!) anytime soon.

But, hear what you're saying about depression. Would agree that its something that is very bad indeed. Wouldnt wish on my worse enemy.

[DirtyDog]

Just saw this post and its pretty relevant to my situation at the mo. Puts it into perspective a bit when I moan about long commutes but at least I can be home at nights.

Assume wife didnt work though during this spell? Of course, all of this assumes wife is able to cope/doesn't mind looking after baby alone during this time. But it can be tough on everyone involved.....

When we moved from the south to the north, my wife stopped work because she found it impossible to get a teaching job near here. She did some temporary teaching roles, but when you are competing with over 200 people for the same role and not even getting an acknowledgement, it's not easy to find motivation.

We both suffered from depression with the first child (she more than I did), which was an absolute nightmare - I wouldn't wish what we were feeling on anyone. In the end, I left my consultancy position after that first year, and took a poorly paid, local permie role just to get some time at home. Ironically, that led me to being a contractor - I saw how crap the competition were and thought "I can do that!"

[psychocandy]

My elder daughter was born while I was a permie - when she was 6 weeks, I started a new role 210 miles away from home. I negotiated from the start that I wanted part-time, and they agreed to let me work 5 days in 4. I would turn up on Monday about 10ish, and leave on Thursday night about 6ish - boot it home door-to-door in 3 hours, and then be responsible for the baby from Thursday night through to Sunday night.

Younger daughter was born during my first contract - I took two weeks off to be at home before returning to work, 230 miles from home. Project after that (she was a couple of months old) was 220 miles in the opposite direction, so stayed away again.

I've now had three years working from home with rare travel away, but they know that it's coming - when this gig ends, chances of having another one from home are pretty slim. Unless this lot offer me a decent paying permie role from home, which I don't think is going to happen.

It's about setting expectations. When I was away, every Sunday night, I'd have the following conversation with my elder daughter:

Her: I don't want you to go away
Me: Why does daddy have to go away?
Her: To go to work
Me: And why do I work away?
Her: So we can get money
Me: And why do we need money?
Her: To buy things
Me: What kind of things?
Her: Clothes and food and heating and a house and a car and things like that

She quickly learned that it wasn't that I didn't want to be at home, but if I didn't work away, there was no chance that we could live like we did. I would have loved to be at home all the time (maybe not as she nears the teenage years), but it just wasn't feasible - I invoice in a quarter what I earned in a year as a permie, so can have the same kind of lifestyle with much less work and longer breaks for holidays.

Just saw this post and its pretty relevant to my situation at the mo. Puts it into perspective a bit when I moan about long commutes but at least I can be home at nights.

Assume wife didnt work though during this spell? Of course, all of this assumes wife is able to cope/doesn't mind looking after baby alone during this time. But it can be tough on everyone involved.....

[psychocandy]

Travel-time to/from the train is definitely a factor. Not only 10min but you have to be there 5min early in case of a delay, even if there are trains every 15min then you add on time if you miss one.

Easy to say "it's just an hour on the train" and then find you actually leave the house more like 2hrs before you arrive to work, especially if you are a type who gets nervous about not missing trains.

This is so true. I live 10 mins drive from train station but of course, its 10 mins drive, 5 mins to find parking space, 5 mins walk from car, 5 mins so you dont miss train. All adds up.

[Old Greg]

Yeah, it paid for my lunch :-)

Of course he should have said you could have the money on the condition that you didn't go to London.

Life lesson learned.

[kal]

Being a money-grabbing contractor, I assume you took him up on his offer?

Yeah, it paid for my lunch :-)

[DirtyDog]

Tried that with my 5 yr old only to be told I didn't need to go to London to get money as I could have the money in his piggy bank!

Being a money-grabbing contractor, I assume you took him up on his offer?

[kal]

My elder daughter was born while I was a permie - when she was 6 weeks, I started a new role 210 miles away from home. I negotiated from the start that I wanted part-time, and they agreed to let me work 5 days in 4. I would turn up on Monday about 10ish, and leave on Thursday night about 6ish - boot it home door-to-door in 3 hours, and then be responsible for the baby from Thursday night through to Sunday night.

Younger daughter was born during my first contract - I took two weeks off to be at home before returning to work, 230 miles from home. Project after that (she was a couple of months old) was 220 miles in the opposite direction, so stayed away again.

I've now had three years working from home with rare travel away, but they know that it's coming - when this gig ends, chances of having another one from home are pretty slim. Unless this lot offer me a decent paying permie role from home, which I don't think is going to happen.

It's about setting expectations. When I was away, every Sunday night, I'd have the following conversation with my elder daughter:

Her: I don't want you to go away
Me: Why does daddy have to go away?
Her: To go to work
Me: And why do I work away?
Her: So we can get money
Me: And why do we need money?
Her: To buy things
Me: What kind of things?
Her: Clothes and food and heating and a house and a car and things like that

She quickly learned that it wasn't that I didn't want to be at home, but if I didn't work away, there was no chance that we could live like we did. I would have loved to be at home all the time (maybe not as she nears the teenage years), but it just wasn't feasible - I invoice in a quarter what I earned in a year as a permie, so can have the same kind of lifestyle with much less work and longer breaks for holidays.

Tried that with my 5 yr old only to be told I didn't need to go to London to get money as I could have the money in his piggy bank!

[kal]

But you dont get that with permie either do you?

I was thinking re the hols and employers being more flexible when you're a permie etc but yeah the cons outweigh the pros in most cases (there are loads of permie roles close to me but little/no contracts).

[psychocandy]

My elder daughter was born while I was a permie - when she was 6 weeks, I started a new role 210 miles away from home. I negotiated from the start that I wanted part-time, and they agreed to let me work 5 days in 4. I would turn up on Monday about 10ish, and leave on Thursday night about 6ish - boot it home door-to-door in 3 hours, and then be responsible for the baby from Thursday night through to Sunday night.

Younger daughter was born during my first contract - I took two weeks off to be at home before returning to work, 230 miles from home. Project after that (she was a couple of months old) was 220 miles in the opposite direction, so stayed away again.

I've now had three years working from home with rare travel away, but they know that it's coming - when this gig ends, chances of having another one from home are pretty slim. Unless this lot offer me a decent paying permie role from home, which I don't think is going to happen.

It's about setting expectations. When I was away, every Sunday night, I'd have the following conversation with my elder daughter:

Her: I don't want you to go away
Me: Why does daddy have to go away?
Her: To go to work
Me: And why do I work away?
Her: So we can get money
Me: And why do we need money?
Her: To buy things
Me: What kind of things?
Her: Clothes and food and heating and a house and a car and things like that

She quickly learned that it wasn't that I didn't want to be at home, but if I didn't work away, there was no chance that we could live like we did. I would have loved to be at home all the time (maybe not as she nears the teenage years), but it just wasn't feasible - I invoice in a quarter what I earned in a year as a permie, so can have the same kind of lifestyle with much less work and longer breaks for holidays.

Yeh fair points here.

[psychocandy]

Sorry,this has probably been asked countless times before but why not just go permie?

But you dont get that with permie either do you?

[DirtyDog]

Sorry,this has probably been asked countless times before but why not just go permie?

• Mindset / lack of freedom
• Lack of decent-paying local jobs
• Lack of holiday entitlement if you find a job
• Longer-term opportunities in contracting

My last permie job gave me 20 days a year, with 3 mandatory between Christmas and New Year. If I worked for 5 years, I got an extra day for every additional year, up to 25 days holiday.

This year, I took 3 days in February, 2 weeks at Easter, 2 weeks in the summer, October half-term, the occasional day, and will have just over 2 weeks at Christmas. This is the longest I've worked in a year in a long time - my average over the past few years has been to work nine months and have three off as breaks.

[DirtyDog]

So those of you doing long commutes and/or staying away - have you got young kids?

I guess needs must and thats the way it goes but how do you cope with being away so much? My little girl is 6 months old now and I really would rather be around a bit more and not away every week. Then again, I suppose good contract pays for good holidays etc.

My elder daughter was born while I was a permie - when she was 6 weeks, I started a new role 210 miles away from home. I negotiated from the start that I wanted part-time, and they agreed to let me work 5 days in 4. I would turn up on Monday about 10ish, and leave on Thursday night about 6ish - boot it home door-to-door in 3 hours, and then be responsible for the baby from Thursday night through to Sunday night.

Younger daughter was born during my first contract - I took two weeks off to be at home before returning to work, 230 miles from home. Project after that (she was a couple of months old) was 220 miles in the opposite direction, so stayed away again.

I've now had three years working from home with rare travel away, but they know that it's coming - when this gig ends, chances of having another one from home are pretty slim. Unless this lot offer me a decent paying permie role from home, which I don't think is going to happen.

It's about setting expectations. When I was away, every Sunday night, I'd have the following conversation with my elder daughter:

Her: I don't want you to go away
Me: Why does daddy have to go away?
Her: To go to work
Me: And why do I work away?
Her: So we can get money
Me: And why do we need money?
Her: To buy things
Me: What kind of things?
Her: Clothes and food and heating and a house and a car and things like that

She quickly learned that it wasn't that I didn't want to be at home, but if I didn't work away, there was no chance that we could live like we did. I would have loved to be at home all the time (maybe not as she nears the teenage years), but it just wasn't feasible - I invoice in a quarter what I earned in a year as a permie, so can have the same kind of lifestyle with much less work and longer breaks for holidays.

[Old Greg]

Always thought that working 4 days a week would be ideal to be honest. Not one for chasing the max income - would be happy to have 4 billable days and then an extra day off a week.
I suppose, like you said, in a way, by taking the odd day off you can do this sometimes. Client would probably get a bit annoyed if they thought you were doing this too often though.

Currently chasing a contract thats a fair trek away (in London). The rate is huge - probably 50% more than I've ever had before so I could afford to take a lot of days off. Would rather time with the family than piling up money in the bank account.

I find that I need to get my foot in the door first and demonstrate my value before I start taking liberties. My time in London (hopefully ended today) was:

- 6 months on site five days per week @ not good rate (needs must etc.)
- 9 months working three days per week (all on site) @ not good rate + 33% (AKA good rate).
- 9 months two to three days per week (mostly from home) @ good rate + 4% (and I took on another mostly based at home three day / week contract at same time @ great rate)
- 6 months three to four days per week (95% on site) @ good rate + 4%.

You have to accept a bit of pain at first with a new client.

BTW, I can't find the thread but an OP raised BET and Cabinet Office Guidance to bully you into operating inside IR35. I work exclusively for NHS organisations and it has not spread beyond government to the NHS - not a peep. I did work for a DH arms length body (technically government, not NHS) and received an email asking me to demonstrate low risk via BET, but they retracted the email as a 'mistake' a day later.

[kal]

Always thought that working 4 days a week would be ideal to be honest. Not one for chasing the max income - would be happy to have 4 billable days and then an extra day off a week.
I suppose, like you said, in a way, by taking the odd day off you can do this sometimes. Client would probably get a bit annoyed if they thought you were doing this too often though.

Currently chasing a contract thats a fair trek away (in London). The rate is huge - probably 50% more than I've ever had before so I could afford to take a lot of days off. Would rather time with the family than piling up money in the bank account.

Sorry,this has probably been asked countless times before but why not just go permie?