Reply to: Shell vs Super market petrol !!

[BolshieBastard]

I disagree completely. Petrol will be between 92-102 throughout Europe. In the UK its 95-101. You cannot tune for 92, and have a benefit for 101, and vice versa.

Diesel, as well, is of varying quality even through Western Europe. Given we can now drive to and from eastern Europe, manufacturers have to take into account the lower quality of fuel there, so are legally bound to make sure they tune to the lowest common denominator. No manufacturer has a map for UK, one for France, one for, etc, etc, etc.

I believe the 999/1000 comment is incorrect too. especially on the bhp. On a N?A car this might be true, but on a TDI, or TSI engine, the gains are significant, in excess of 25% most of the time, especially at the bottom end, so it's obviously different.

OH, I've news for you. Do you seriously think manufacturers producing Right Hand Drive cars for the UK market tune the cars for a petrol octane not available in this country? No, neither do I.

You'll hear people who take their cars on the continent and complain their car ran rough on 'foreign' petrol. Most of that is likely due to people putting the cheapest unleaded in the tank ie 92 RON.

I can assure you RHD cars manufactured for the UK market are tuned to run on 95 RON fuel and above.

[stek]

Shell vs Super market petrol !!

But don't forget that LPG is 25% less efficient making your cost about 99p per mile.

Makes no or negligible different in my car, ie big engine, not revving its bollocks off, and I've tried it on petrol and gas. In petrol now in fact

I take ur point tho - if the revs are up it will affect - but mines hardly turning over at 70....

[Paddy]

DIY additive

http://www.ijeset.com/media/4I3-IJES...N-PEROXIDE.pdf

[bobspud]

Morrisons LPG - 330 miles - 60 litre refill. 69p a litre....

But don't forget that LPG is 25% less efficient making your cost about 99p per mile.

[kingcook]

Hi,

I used to fill petrol from my local Morrison’s, recently moved to Shell petrol. Looks like Shell gives me 50-80 miles extract per full tank!. Is this due to 'superior' Shell Petrol or change in weather? My journey route is not changed in last 3-4 months.

You could try the new Shell V-Power Nitro+.

Check out this video for some hardcore technical info with absolutely no marketing dribble whatsoever

http://www.youtube.com/user/Shell?v=4nwhOqvhhpo

[Old Hack]

if you are interested bit of info here

my main concern was extra strain on the running gear but that does not seem to be an issue

i may have a look at this more in depth!

I think there's built in tolerances for all modern cars running gear. I recall the s-max gearbox being from Volvo which was rated to 550 bhp. The Merc one I have is rated to 675 bhp, as it us used across the range so has to be able to support the AMG models.

I'd be looking at the car I had, and researching it's component history if I was adding power. However, in the main, most reputable companies offer warranties.

[original PM]

if you are interested bit of info here

my main concern was extra strain on the running gear but that does not seem to be an issue

i may have a look at this more in depth!

[Old Hack]

When you say remapping, does that mean the ignition timing is advanced to suit the better (i.e. higher octane) fuels?

Regards

DA

It's a lot more complex than that; it's about adjusting the flow of fuel into the ignition chamber, the opening times of the valves, adjusting how much boost the turbo delivers and all sorts.

[DodgyAccountant]

When you say remapping, does that mean the ignition timing is advanced to suit the better (i.e. higher octane) fuels?

Regards

DA

[Normie]

I disagree completely. Petrol will be between 92-102 throughout Europe. In the UK its 95-101. You cannot tune for 92, and have a benefit for 101, and vice versa.

Diesel, as well, is of varying quality even through Western Europe. Given we can now drive to and from eastern Europe, manufacturers have to take into account the lower quality of fuel there, so are legally bound to make sure they tune to the lowest common denominator. No manufacturer has a map for UK, one for France, one for, etc, etc, etc.

I believe the 999/1000 comment is incorrect too. especially on the bhp. On a N?A car this might be true, but on a TDI, or TSI engine, the gains are significant, in excess of 25% most of the time, especially at the bottom end, so it's obviously different.

I agree. My brother had a Forc C-Max 1.9 deisel - couldn't comfortably put it into 4th gear until doing at least 35 mph - engine really laboured if you put it into 4th at 30. Had it re-mapped and drives like a different car now. Made the difference between selling it and keeping it.

[Old Hack]

Despite what people say, you dont get the benefit of both at the same time. In other words, its an either or situation.

People seem to think manufacturers tune their cars for the worst case scenario ie tulip 3rd world fuel, low atmospheric pressure etc. They dont. They tune the cars for the intended market. Do people seriously think manufacturers are not tuning their cars for the european market to take account of

best fuel economy
higher RON of european fuels
strict european emission standards
general european atmospheric pressure
best performance within the envelope

A tuning box can change these parameters but does not give the improvements many claim of better mpg and better performance.

999 motorists out of 1000 wouldn't and couldn't do a controlled test on performance \ mpg before tuning box fitment and after.

I disagree completely. Petrol will be between 92-102 throughout Europe. In the UK its 95-101. You cannot tune for 92, and have a benefit for 101, and vice versa.

Diesel, as well, is of varying quality even through Western Europe. Given we can now drive to and from eastern Europe, manufacturers have to take into account the lower quality of fuel there, so are legally bound to make sure they tune to the lowest common denominator. No manufacturer has a map for UK, one for France, one for, etc, etc, etc.

I believe the 999/1000 comment is incorrect too. especially on the bhp. On a N?A car this might be true, but on a TDI, or TSI engine, the gains are significant, in excess of 25% most of the time, especially at the bottom end, so it's obviously different.

[BolshieBastard]

indeed on the subject of tuning - what are the problems with chipping the engine to give both extra power and increased MPG - and more to the point why was the engine not set up that way in the first place?

just asking cos I am thinking of doing it (mainly for the MPG increase rather than the power)

Despite what people say, you dont get the benefit of both at the same time. In other words, its an either or situation.

People seem to think manufacturers tune their cars for the worst case scenario ie tulip 3rd world fuel, low atmospheric pressure etc. They dont. They tune the cars for the intended market. Do people seriously think manufacturers are not tuning their cars for the european market to take account of

best fuel economy
higher RON of european fuels
strict european emission standards
general european atmospheric pressure
best performance within the envelope

A tuning box can change these parameters but does not give the improvements many claim of better mpg and better performance.

999 motorists out of 1000 wouldnt and couldnt do a controlled test on performance \ mpg before tuning box fitment and after.

[AtW]

Petrol engines generally deliver best torque and economy around 5400rpm

Fuel duty+VAT tax cheat!!!

[Old Hack]

indeed on the subject of tuning - what are the problems with chipping the engine to give both extra power and increased MPG - and more to the point why was the engine not set up that way in the first place?

just asking cos I am thinking of doing it (mainly for the MPG increase rather than the power)

Re-mapping is ok, but the piggy back units aren't that good.

Effectively, the manufacturers will create a map for all countries, e.g. from Albania, to Nigeria, they will have the same map (not in all cases, but most). Due to this, the map they put with the car, is dumbed down to the lowest common denominator, which is the lowest grade of fuel. What re-mapping does, is make sure that the engine is optimised for Western European fuel, which allows for a better 'burn' in the cylinder. This means more power, bhp and torque, and the by product of more power, is that you use less fuel.

You can now get maps for economy, which is a more specialised map, but you can see 15%, and if you are doing large miles, it makes sense.

I just like the extra power myself.

[bluetoaster]

indeed on the subject of tuning - what are the problems with chipping the engine to give both extra power and increased MPG - and more to the point why was the engine not set up that way in the first place?

just asking cos I am thinking of doing it (mainly for the MPG increase rather than the power)

I did it with a 1.9tdi VW unit. It made the car far more driveable and I was no longer thrashing it everywhere just get going. It made no difference to the mpg for me. As for the changes to the car I would strongly recommend it, though I doubt I'll do it again as it really upset my insurance company.

I just make sure I get the right engine now when I buy a car.