Reply to: oh dear: Belgium: 1 - England: 0

[Tex]

I've never heard of EU countries simply/automatically handing out permanent residence

Happens in the UK all the time... one legged roofers, hard luck story, you name it... welcome to Britain, please collect your passport and guide to claiming benefits as you pass through customs.

[Joe Black]

Well I'm more than a bit surprised myself, certainly didn't expect this sort of hassle when I moved here. Sort of naively followed all the EU gumpf about registering etc, started working and wasn't expecting any major problems.

Worked in Brussels a number of times some years ago, no probs, but then again I still did everything on the basis that I was a UK resident, billed through an LTD or worked more or less as an expat.

Surprised you say you've had no problems "getting your papers in order" when you also state that you're a Canadian national (without dual citizenship?), as I've never heard of EU countries simply/automatically handing out permanent residence if that is the case?

[Crown Royal]

Belgium

I'm suprised to hear all the difficulties you are having Joe Black...I'm a Canadian national and have had no problems whatsoever in getting my papers in order, in Belgium.

Incorporating a company in Belgium is quite expensive (notary costs, share capital of 18K Euros etc.), if I were you, I'd look at incoporporating a company in an offshore place and just set up a branch office in Belgium (simple set-up, moderate legal costs, no need for share capital etc.) your branch can apply for a VAT number and you can employ yourself out of the branch - i.e. you will no longer need to register as self-employed and as an EU national, you do not need a work permit to work in Belgium - you just need to offer yourself an employment contract from your own branch and with that in hand you will get your residence permit...

[Clog II The Avenger]

I don't think it's such a nazi idea to require people to have a minimum command of the local language to get a job in a country. But then again... PC can easily go mad.

I know an ex-colleague who had a similar plight. He even started the language course only to be told three weeks later that it was a mistake and he does not have to do it because the rule only applies to non EU workers.

[Joe Black]

current requirements for self-employment in Belgium

for those interested, and can read either French or Dutch.

https://www.go-start.be/gostart/publ...re_goStart.pdf
https://www.go-start.be/gostart/publ...re_goStart.pdf

pg 9 onwards explains most of it.

[Joe Black]

Fleetwood, if you received your degree before 2000 then I believe as long as it's one of the types already recognised, then it doesn't matter what it was in. Anything after 2000 I believe has to have some sort of business component to it.

Bob, as I mentioned you have a number of options, have a diploma considered acceptable, do a basic business course (fr/nl/de), or fit into some other strange category, e.g. having been a farmer/gardener etc, or show some other business experience, usually at least 5 years req.

threaded, the 'kiosks' have been round for some time. All they do is act as a central point where you file all the paperwork and then they send it off to the appropriate departments.

[Fleetwood]

There are these one stop "kiosks" allowing everything to be done in less than a working week or somat.

Three months and counting. Things are 'en cours".....

[threaded]

No not another world cup defeat for England, but an update for those interested in the joys of Belgium bureaucracy.

You do know all these rules changed on 1st June? The Belgians were supposed to have made setting up a business much easier. There are these one stop "kiosks" allowing everything to be done in less than a working week or somat. I would not be surprised if the civil savants you are dealing with are doing it completely wrong now.

[AtW]

I don't think it's such a nazi idea to require people to have a minimum command of the local language to get a job in a country.

Not to EU citizens - its up to the employer to decide if language is known well, however its none of the Govts business to require such things unless its for Govt jobs - I am pretty certain EU laws prohibit what is happening in Belgium, its something for the European Court of human rights.

[BobTheCrate]

This is just to register as self-employed, which requires either a cert/degree/diploma considered acceptable...

I don't know but this really does not sound correct. Are you absolutely sure about that ?

For example if you wanted to set up as a self employed window cleaner in Belgium, you'd have to have a cert/degree/diploma ?

There must be an enormous number of seriously over qualified self employed window cleaners in Belgium. Not a bad trade here given they earn a fair ol' whack, in Belgium they must be considered the creme de la creme.

[Joe Black]

Franko, I certainly haven't given up thats for sure. Hence my comment about what they can do with the idea of me quitting my current job, whether it's legal or not.

I've been looking at the option of the course. To be honest I wish I'd just done that in the first place, would have given far less grief.

Whether my Dutch is up to it is another question. Been trying to ask various Belgian contractors what the exam is like, but none of them seem to have needed it.

AtW, the point where language comes in is if your qualifications aren't accepted then you have to do the exam (written/verbal), which afaik is only in french, german or dutch.

[Francko]

the state can't set such barrier for ALL jobs.

I don't think it's such a nazi idea to require people to have a minimum command of the local language to get a job in a country. But then again... PC can easily go mad.

[Fleetwood]

Currently in a state of limbo comme toi, JB.
Everything was OK before, but they changed the rules, then I left the country and have come back.
I have had to re-register, and have had to re-apply to the "Carrefour des entreprises" to register as self-employed again, and they want to see my diplômes. I have a degree, but not in IT, so should be OK, but no news yet. Why they can't just say "This guy was here before in IT, let's wave him through", I don't know.
Will keep you informed.

[AtW]

It seems to me that requirement of having degree in order to be self-employed is against EU laws on free workforce movement and other things: talking of language I think its only up to employers to decide if your level of language is sufficient, the state can't set such barrier for ALL jobs.

[Joe Black]

Is IT there a regulated profession like legal here?

No it's not, then it would be even more complicated.

This is just to register as self-employed, which requires either a cert/degree/diploma considered acceptable, or can speak French/Dutch fluently enough to do a crash course and pass the state exam.

A Belgium girl I know, who did a part-time course in social studies, can apparently become a freelance IT consultant with her 'diploma' without any problems.