Reply to: Women in combat roles

[MyUserName]

Now if it had been rugby they would've all been fighting each other to tackle her lol

She would have been exposed to some tackles, no doubt!

[MyUserName]

You do see this in kid's football. Stick a girl in the team, and none of the lads will attack her wholeheartedly. Maybe it's the blokes that are soft!

Watch this in hockey. Put a boy on the team and the girls try to break his ******* neck.

We played mixed hockey for exactly 2 PE lessons before it got cancelled, both ended with trips to hospital - one requiring eye surgery.

[The Spartan]

You do see this in kid's football. Stick a girl in the team, and none of the lads will attack her wholeheartedly. Maybe it's the blokes that are soft!

Now if it had been rugby they would've all been fighting each other to tackle her lol

[mudskipper]

You do see this in kid's football. Stick a girl in the team, and none of the lads will attack her wholeheartedly. Maybe it's the blokes that are soft!

[MyUserName]

My point is, if this is to be a sytematic decision, what will be the effect on morale ?
If I was in fear of my life, I want the guy on the other side to be a pussey and so rubbish that he will run or surrender or miss. Even if he is not a pussey, all that matters is that I think he is

Don't get me wrong, I was not arguing with you. I actually agree. I was asking purely out of interest.

[EternalOptimist]

Don't jump down my throat but didn't the Russians also have some female snipers and tank operatives?

probably. If you try hard enough, you will be able to find examples and exceptions everywhere, like the females who served as gunners on HMS Victory, disguised as men.

My point is, if this is to be a sytematic decision, what will be the effect on morale ?
If I was in fear of my life, I want the guy on the other side to be a pussey and so rubbish that he will run or surrender or miss. Even if he is not a pussey, all that matters is that I think he is

[MyUserName]

Then you have to look at the history. Female combat units have been formed before, the Russians had a few battalions as did the Zulus, but they were for propaganda, not for fighting. The Israelis had some female combatants, and a battalion of female infantry, but I am not sure if they are still in service

Don't jump down my throat but didn't the Russians also have some female snipers and tank operatives?

[EternalOptimist]

There is only one reason to have a military and that is to win. Everything else is just fluff. So would an army with women in the front line win more, or would they win less.
All other things being equal, would you rather be facing the Iraqis, Chinese, Algerians ,Americans, Gurkhas ?

It does matter. some enemies are ferocious and some are pussies.

If the enemy was female, which way would that balance be shifted ?


Then you have to look at the history. Female combat units have been formed before, the Russians had a few battalions as did the Zulus, but they were for propaganda, not for fighting. The Israelis had some female combatants, and a battalion of female infantry, but I am not sure if they are still in service

[Scrag Meister]

That scene in GI Jane (yes whatever - cr@p film) where towards the end he attempts to rape her

shudder

Wife loves that film.

[Kelstar]

Training is just that though training and when you face people who can torture without conscience or fear of reprisal then you're totally fooked, so what if some squaddie urinated over a few POW's the fact of the matter is given the reverse he would no doubt tortured to death.

During the conflict in the Balkans male soldiers were raped and consequently contracted HIV from it, not sure if this received any public attention though.

I do agree with your comments on training and public awareness of the reality of war.

Just one of those things, I asked a lot of questions and tried to put myself in his shoes. But if you haven't walked the walk and saw life through their eyes, really its all academic.... I've seen a normal, full functioning, social man fall to absolute pieces on occassion over the most irrelevant thing, physically crumble. PTSD and the reality of war is often overlooked...

But thats enough from me on this topic!

[doodab]

A lot of this seems to be predicated on the idea that the point of the army is to let everyone who wants a go have a go. Where you are putting peoples lives at risk the focus has to be absolutely 100% on having the most effective combat force you can. Anything that diminishes that has to be a no no.

[The Spartan]

Pre deployment training includes preparation for capture and what to expect... rape is one of the topics, men are commonly raped. Man, woman, rape is rape.... its a common form of torture in war. Not nice, but true....

Training is just that though training and when you face people who can torture without conscience or fear of reprisal then you're totally fooked, so what if some squaddie urinated over a few POW's the fact of the matter is given the reverse he would no doubt tortured to death.

During the conflict in the Balkans male soldiers were raped and consequently contracted HIV from it, not sure if this received any public attention though.

[Kelstar]

Then they need more training!.

My personal view is it isn't as simple as "do more training"

They train with women... they go on exercise with women. I can only speak from the feedback my ex gave me. On training exercises wouldn't blink twice. Under fire, different story.

Its hard not to become an armchair warrior on this topic, I fully support equality and the rights of women to serve in combat roles if they wish... however I think the bigger picture is more complex.

And, give the cuts to the MOD budgets, I suspect training may become more "streamlined". But thats just a guess....

[Troll]

Pre deployment training includes preparation for capture and what to expect... rape is one of the topics, men are commonly raped. Man, woman, rape is rape.... its a common form of torture in war. Not nice, but true....

That's fine at a personal level - however the behaviour of the captured sailors from HMS Cornwall in 2007(and apologies for switching from land to sea forces) suggests our nations forces lack any fortitude in captivity, what counts these days is support of the nation for continuing any hostilities rather than actual military effectiveness, Daily Mail headlines of woman combatants being raped by Johnny Foreigner will soon destroy that support

[BrilloPad]

Automatically (some) men would jump to protect - as an instinct, distracting from the commands and routines they are trained to perform when under fire. Its a distraction, and a very hard instinctive response to retrain/switch off. They do drills and training exercises along side women, but still in the situation when deployed something else kicks in....

Then they need more training! In the falklands some Argies were defending a ridge when some Gurkhas ran up towards them. A Gurkha trod on a mine - his leg was blown away and everyone ignored him. At that point the Argies surrendered.