Reply to: we don’t want Mittal in France anymore because Indian CEO is lying

[sasguru]

A phrase sasguru hears almost every day, don't celebrate too much though it's the equivalent of beating a snail at the 100m.

Still smarting from being exposed as russell, eh?
Next time try to make your sockies less cretinous than your real self, it shouldn't be too hard

[sasguru]

I am not sure how this is scored but It looks that I won this argument.

You did?
Seems to me like you're complaining when some businessman tries to make a profit from his businesses.
That makes you a cretin. And a whiny one to boot.
If you think you can run a steel company, or an IT company, better then do it.
After all, as you noted, you probably have a head start on Mittal since he comes from a poor background.

[LatteLiberal]

I am not sure how this is scored but It looks that I won this argument.

A phrase sasguru hears almost every day, don't celebrate too much though it's the equivalent of beating a snail at the 100m.

[lilelvis2000]

I'm struggling to see your point. Are you suggesting that unprofitable steel plants be kept open regardless of market conditions? I'm guessing the Great Recession means demand for steel has fallen worldwide.

overall probably. But there would be hotspots like China and India maybe the Arabian Gulf. Guessing those areas would be served with closer - and cheaper - production plants.

[mos]

So why are you moaning? Businesses exist to make a profit, not to look after lazy fooktards.

I am not sure how this is scored but It looks that I won this argument.

[sasguru]

I worked long enough with TATA consulting to understand the business thank you very much

So why are you moaning? Businesses exist to make a profit, not to look after lazy fooktards.

[mos]

Update: Mittal has come a to binding deal with the French authorities. End of story.
Basically when running a global business you have to close down plants when demand falls.
Of course you'll close those that are easiest to close down/loss making whatever.
I find it amazing when contracators don't understand the basics of business.

I worked long enough with TATA consulting to understand the business thank you very much

[sasguru]

Update: Mittal has come a to binding deal with the French authorities. End of story.
Basically when running a global business you have to close down plants when demand falls.
Of course you'll close those that are easiest to close down/loss making whatever.
I find it amazing when contracators don't understand the basics of business.

[sasguru]

talk to Vincent Cable

Vince is an idiot who talks a good game.
I wish we had the Tory grandees who used to run Britain in the 80s back in power.
They were hard-nosed businessmen who knew how the world worked.

[mos]

So the Poles handed over steel production on "promises of investment"
No contract specifying anything?
You do understand how business works - there's usually a contract specifying obligations etc.
So take him to court if he's reneged on his contractual responsibility.
Otherwise you're talking out of your arse.

HTH, BIKIW.
Next!

talk to Vincent Cable

[sasguru]

Whatever do you mean? I know Poland quite well and I know that the steel production is very important fot his country. Mittal got 70% of Polish steel production. It would have never closed, the State had a number of interested investors and Mittal was chosen because of his promises of investments and perceived know-how.

The main problem we had was a very strong union with strong historical significance. and yet Mittal managed to screw them totally. Poland is nothing like in Russia or India, I can assure you.

So the Poles handed over steel production on "promises of investment"
No contract specifying anything?
You do understand how business works - there's usually a contract specifying obligations etc.
So take him to court if he's reneged on his contractual responsibility.
Otherwise you're talking out of your arse.

HTH, BIKIW.
Next!

[The Spartan]

Nice to see the Poles getting screwed as well

[mos]

He doesn't seem as bad as the oligarchs in Russia (and other East European countries) who stole national assets in the free-for-all after the collapse of the Soviet union e.g. Abramovich.
Good luck to him I say - these steel plants would probably have closed a long time ago without his input.
If you think you can do better then do it.

HTH.

Whatever do you mean? I know Poland quite well and I know that the steel production is very important for this country. Mittal got 70% of Polish steel production. The Mills would have never closed, the State had a number of interested investors and Mittal was chosen because of his promises of investments, modernisation and perceived know-how.

The main problem was a very strong union with strong historical significance. And yet Mittal managed to screw them totally. Poland is nothing like Russia or India, I can assure you.

[sasguru]

I am arguing that the condition of the deals which Mittal made throughout the Europe was that these steel plants would be modernized. He claimed significant know-how, and success stories. That means the commitment to significant investment. That also means no big fat dividends for him and his relatives.

So called still magnates (who acquired this status over night, starting from poverty in India) did none of these things. They just run all of the European plants to the ground amassing breathtaking fortune on the way. They and their relatives.

It is not just Arcelor in France and in Southern Europe. Its Poland, Romania, Kazakhstan, Algeria, i.e his early 2000 deals. He was buying 'privatized' steelworks for peanuts, but with strings attached. Since 2005 he was effectively saying: strings, what strings? This is my property, get out. But on the face of it he was pretending to modernize ( there are interesting articles from 2006, Poland, showing that he was just putting up signs 'construction under way' signs while absolutely nothing was being constructed. The plants were running as usual. When challenged, he was arrogant. It is so dated and badly managed now that there are accidents and breakdowns every single month). He started laying off people at his earliest convenience.

However in western press, there were multiple articles published which branded him as the white knight of the Polish steel industry, claiming that he brought in significant investments.

You may say that this is normal LBO practice in the City. I have seen enough of this to agree with you. Still it does not make it right.

He doesn't seem as bad as the oligarchs in Russia (and other East European countries) who stole national assets in the free-for-all after the collapse of the Soviet union e.g. Abramovich.
Good luck to him I say - these steel plants would probably have closed a long time ago without his input.
If you think you can do better then do it.

HTH.

[mos]

I'm struggling to see your point. Are you suggesting that unprofitable steel plants be kept open regardless of market conditions? I'm guessing the Great Recession means demand for steel has fallen worldwide.

I am arguing that the condition of the deals which Mittal made throughout the Europe was that these steel plants would be modernized. He claimed significant know-how, and success stories. That means the commitment to significant investment. That also means no big fat dividends for him and his relatives.

So called still magnates (who acquired this status over night, starting from poverty in India) did none of these things. They just run all of the European plants to the ground amassing breathtaking fortune on the way. They and their relatives.

It is not just Arcelor in France and in Southern Europe. Its Poland, Romania, Kazakhstan, Algeria, i.e his early 2000 deals. He was buying 'privatized' steelworks for peanuts, but with strings attached. Since 2005 he was effectively saying: strings, what strings? This is my property, get out. But on the face of it he was pretending to modernize ( there are interesting articles from 2006, Poland, showing that he was just putting up signs 'construction under way' signs while absolutely nothing was being constructed. The plants were running as usual. When challenged, he was arrogant. It is so dated and badly managed now that there are accidents and breakdowns every single month). He started laying off people at his earliest convenience.

However in western press, there were multiple articles published which branded him as the white knight of the Polish steel industry, claiming that he brought in significant investments.

You may say that this is normal LBO practice in the City. I have seen enough of this to agree with you. Still it does not make it right.